The Orbán government’s international conference on the future of Europe, with Milo Yiannopoulos

Yesterday the Hungarian media got wind of an international conference on The Future of Europe, to be held between January 23 and 25, 2018 in Budapest’s Castle Garden Bazaar. The conference is heralded as “an outstanding cultural and scientific event of the V4 Hungarian Presidency” and is being funded by the Hungarian Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade. Századvég, the Fidesz think tank, and V4 Connects, the fancy name for the Hungarian presidency of the Visegrád Four, are “partners,” while the organizer of the affair is a foundation created during the first Orbán government under the watchful eye of Mária Schmidt, who still serves on its five-member board.

According to the conference’s webpage, it “represents an extraordinary opportunity to analyze the full array of political and cultural processes as well as to put our identity-creating cultural values in the limelight.” The conference is advertised as a gathering of leading politicians, renowned professors and well-known public figures [who] will share their views with each other and with the audience of visitors.”

There will be panel discussions on topics like the “cultural war for body and soul” of Europe, or, to put it another way, “shall we, out of cultural guilt or simple calculation, sacrifice Christianity, freedom and our way of life?” As for geopolitical challenges, the invited guests will discuss such issues as the nature of a European army. The question is whether this army “should consist of soldiers or machines and algorithms.” They will touch upon digitalization, which tomorrow “may radically transform humanity’s own identity or even our physical existence.” Finally, emphasis will be placed on the Visegrád Four as “the engine of Europe’s economy” and what opportunities the emerging giants of the world economy–China, India, Indonesia–offer the Visegrád nations. “Will our region be able to jump several stairs at once and make Europe become a leading force in the future world economy?”

When it comes to “the gathering of leading politicians, renowned professors and well-known public figures,” the keynote speaker on the opening day of the conference will be Milo Yiannopoulos, described as a political commentator, publisher, blogger, journalist, and the author of Challenges of the Western World. The next day Frank Füredi, author, commentator, and sociologist, will deliver a lecture on “Populism and the European Culture Wars.” In the afternoon, Götz Kubitschek, described as a publisher, publicist, and philosopher from Germany, will conduct a panel discussion on “migration, resettlement and the future of Europe.” The closing presentation, still untitled, will be given by Pascal Bruckner, a French philosopher and author of a book on France and Islam. The last day will be given over to such luminaries as Péter Szijjártó, who will deliver a speech, most likely on Europe’s geopolitical challenges, and Tamás Deutsch, who will inquire whether “artificial intelligence is our future.” Closing remarks will be delivered by Sándor Csányi, the president of OTP, Hungary’s largest bank, and the richest man in the country.

Who are these people? Let’s start with the lesser-known characters. Götz Kubitschek is a right-wing activist who espouses ethnocentric positions and is one of the most important protagonists of the Neue Rechte. Apparently, he was instrumental in the consolidation of the German branch of the Identitarian movement, commonly viewed as far right. He has been a frequent speaker at PEGIDA rallies in Saxony. He is also close to the Alternative for Germany (AfD) party.

Frank Füredi, as his name indicates, is of Hungarian origin. With his parents he arrived in Canada as a refugee after the Hungarian revolution of 1956. He has been living in the United Kingdom since 1969. In the 1970s he became involved in left-wing politics and was the founder and leader of the Revolutionary Communist Party. Nowadays, however, he shows quite a bit of sympathy for populist ideas. I suspect that he was invited to this conference because only a few months ago he published a new book titled Populism and the European Culture Wars, which “argues that the current outburst of anti-populist anxiety is symptomatic of a loss of faith in democracy and in the ability of the demos to assume the role of responsible citizens.” Even more importantly, the book focuses “on the conflict between the European Union’s Commission and the Government of Hungary” and “explores contrasting attitudes towards national sovereignty, popular sovereignty and the question of tradition and the past as the main drivers of the culture wars in Europe.”

Pascal Bruckner was most likely chosen because of his ideas on Islam and the white race, about which he wrote in La Tyrannie de la pénitence. His general criticism of Islam kindled an international debate about ten years ago when he wrote a polemical article titled “Enlightenment fundamentalism or racism of the anti-racists?” In it he talked about an “enlightened elite who deny the benefits of democratic rights to the rest of humanity.” This is an idea that fits in very nicely with the Fidesz ideologues’ hatred of the liberal elite.

Of course, the most controversial character among the invitees is Milo Yiannopoulos, a former senior editor of Breitbart News. He is a critic of feminism, Islam, social justice, and political correctness. He is often described as a member of the alt-right movement, a label he rejects. But in October 2017 leaked emails revealed that he had repeatedly solicited neo-Nazi and white supremacist characters for feedback and story ideas for his work at Breitbart. The same emails also revealed that some of his Breitbart articles were ghost written. His book, which was supposed be published by Simon & Schuster and for which he received $255,000, was eventually rejected and the contract broken. A few days ago an article was devoted to the editor’s notes on Yiannopoulos’s rejected book, which reveal the man’s total inability to write something publishable. One of the funnier remarks by the editor was that the author needed “a stronger argument against feminism than saying that they are ugly and sexless and have cats.” A recent article compares him to Donald Trump in the sense that he “grew out of a grotesque convergence of politics and the internet, and thrived by turning hate speech into show business.”

Milo Yiannopoulos

Well, this is not how the Fidesz far-right looks upon him. Yesterday Pesti Srácok published an article in which Balázs Dezse, the author, talked about Yiannopoulos’s visit to Budapest as a “historic moment” which “for many people is a dream come true.” Dezse is obviously is one of them. According to the admiring author, Yiannopoulos played a key role in the election of Donald Trump as president of the United States. The argument is that it is hard to label this man as a Nazi because, after all, he is openly gay, he prefers African-American partners, and he is partly Jewish. As for his firing from Breitbart for his controversial remarks about pedophilia, this was an attempt by liberals to silence him. He had been molested by his own father, and his remarks about the case were simply twisted by his enemies. Dezse, in an earlier article, also published in Pesti Srácok, describes Yiannopoulos as “the most exciting and most controversial figure of the alternative right.” With great enthusiasm he covers every step that Yiannopoulos has ever taken, showing a deep familiarity with the man’s career and the foreign-language sources that have covered his activities. The article is titled “A brilliant and dangerous fagot, evil doer of the internet alt-right.” (Yiannopoulos called himself a “dangerous faggot.”)

The more mainstream Fidesz papers, like Magyar Idők and Magyar Hírlap, have so far remained quiet about the conference. Mária Schmidt’s Figyelő couldn’t quite ignore it since, after all, Schmidt was involved in the organization of the event. So, an article attacked the liberal media’s criticism of inviting people like Milo Yiannopoulos to an international conference organized by the Hungarian government. The author rejects the label of “extreme right,” which is an arbitrary designation that is given by the so-called independent media and a few liberal politicians. These people complain that “Yiannopoulos as a newspaperman considers his chief mission to be the criticism of feminists, left-wingers, and human-rights activists. This is 100% correct and that’s why we love him.”

Zsolt Jeszenszky, who described himself as a political hobbyist and who has a Bannon 2020 banner on his Facebook page, called the criticisms mere hysteria by the “Hungarian alter egos of Guy Verhofstadt.” In his opinion, “the fellow is extremely well educated, well informed” and often makes fools of his opponents. He is “the greatest enemy of the liberal establishment.” Jeszenszky in this article intimates that conservative Republicans were behind Yiannopoulos’s downfall at Breitbart, taking advantage of his comments on his pedophilic experience.

As time goes by, Viktor Orbán is becoming increasingly open about his far-right ideology and orientation. Looking over the participants of this conference, I find it hard to imagine a group further to the right, unless Viktor Orbán’s Fidesz will decide to invite white supremacists and neo-Nazis to their next international conference on the future of Europe.

December 29, 2017
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exTor
Guest

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Milo Yiannopoulos, pictured beside the unseen Bill Maher, who sees Milo as a young Christopher Hitchens, is a big catch for The Future of Europe conference. Milo is sharp, young, charismatic. Most Hungarians wont know much about him. What will matter is that he is youthful and proFidesz.

Milo Yiannopoulos is viewed as a smartass troll, especially by those on the left in the West. None of that will matter if he shows up and gives a good speech without flaming the stage. I’ve avoided watching his YouTube channel. It’s bad enough, however, that I occasionally force myself to watch MAGATs [Make America Great Again Trumpists] like Ben Shapiro doing Trump.

MAGYARKOZÓ

Member

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lImHh7fqrQo

Libertarianism is normally something you get over once your skull’s fontanelles fuse… This wag still seems to be clogged in the birth canal… But he’ll be a hit with the macho magyar moustachios in the Castle Garden’s bazaar. Not just an IQ match, but even looks a bit like Peter Sziijarto…

Member

You said more than enough to say nothing

Member

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wrfree
Guest

Yon punchy Pete has that ‘lean and hungry look’ ala Travis Bickle ..courtesy ‘Taxi Driver’.. He too looks as if he wants to ‘clean’ up his territory.

‘You talkin’ to me?
You talkin’to me?
You talkin’ to me?
Well who else ya talkin’ to?
Well I’m the only one here.
Who the f@@@ do you think yer talkin’ to?’

petofi
Guest

Great pic…looks like he’s about to kiss a pig–

Member

Or your mama

szatmári
Guest

“Tamás Deutsch, who will inquire whether “artificial intelligence is our future.”

It is Tomi’s only hope left.

nvtln
Guest

OMG, what a historic moment, when the government invites a known internet troll to a conference. Seriously, OV. & co. are supposedly lawyers, can’t they actually try harder to get someone a little more presentable at least? This has to be the bottom of the barrel.

@extor: I think noone sane can view him anything except a troll. This is a guy that repeatedly says pedophilia is okay. He also presents himself as a gay man who supports every piece of anti-gay legislation/proposal.

petofi
Guest

@ nvtin

You seem to forget, sirrah, that Orbie/Orbanus/Orbanum is nothing if not Mockery Incarnate…

Bowen
Guest

Milo is a discredited joke in the UK and US these days, since he’s been dropped by his publisher, Simon & Schuster. He obviously has few places left to go, to peddle his deliberate trolling.

I do wonder how the Fidesz homophobic base will manage to square having the likes of Milo join the ‘team’.

Ferenc
Guest

Is using the “conference” really appropriate for such a meeting of like-minded people (basically only men, as I didn’t notice one woman mentioned…)?
In my understanding a conference is a gathering, where knowledgeable people with different visions can speak about, discuss, and may be even agree on (parts of) a specific subject.
The “thing” at hand is quite different: a gathering of people from a specific part of society (mostly called “alt-right”) speaking about a number of subjects in front of a group of “yes-men” or “nodding-donkey-pumps”. So there will hardly any opposing opinion(s) be brought in.
All of this paid out of the tax money put together by the people in Hungary.
And this should be of benefit for the people in the V4 countries, or even all in Europe [name of the ‘thing’!]?? GET LOST!!

PS: Deutsch about “artificial intelligence is our future”: one who doesn’t have much of it himself, has to look for it elsewhere…

Observer
Guest

Eva, you made my day, one can’t make this up, I was laughing loud:
– at the “luminaries” re Szijjárto and Deutsch,
– then the “ethnocentric” German named Kubitschek, the “outburst of anti-populist anxiety” as if Heider, Le Pen pere, Farage, Tea Party etc. weren’t at all, but
– the Milo Y invitation tops it all – it pains me to miss the “dream come true” encounter of the “macho magyar moustachios” and the traditional-Christian-family-values champions with the “dangerous (pedophile?) fagot”.
Zsolt Jeszenszky, whom I describe as a plain fascist, is too dour a character and just spoils the fun.

Observer
Guest

Sorry, my mistake
The “dour” was meant for another fascist – Zoltán Lomnici Jr.

Observer
Guest

Zsolt Jeszenszky is much lighter, in any respect – knowledge, intellect, etc. listen to his deep reverence towards Orban’s whatever, his musing on corruption, etc. Very funny https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAsD5lh_zw4

Guest

A bit OT:
When I read “V4” I always have to think about the German “Vergeltungswaffen” …
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V-weapons
The V3 cannon was supposed to be used against London – and now we have the V4 – as (in)effective as those earlier concepts?

PS:
Re artificial intelligence
Will this be better than natural stupidity?

I just asked my wife and of course she had heard and laughed about this conference (info travels fast nowadays …) and she said:
Orbán and his cronies are not normal …

Jean P
Guest

“Orbán and his cronies are not normal …”

They are increasingly delusional. (If they believe what they say).

Guest

I’m not sure about that – but obviously many deplorables or bunko paraszt believe everything that the “North Korean propaganda machine” aka the state controlled Hungarian media produce.
Is the world developing backwards on an intellectual level?
(See also my remark on “constipation theories”.)

wrfree
Guest

At one time in a now distant past the country was a shining light in intellectual endeavor and in educational prowess. Amazing at how things have gone awry as we look at the actions of a particular political coterie. Shades of the 30’s.

Today a free- thinker roaming in the hills of Buda and the flat lines of Pest arguably is nowhere a sight for sore eyes. They simply hunker down and no doubt write and think for themselves. And it’s the food that’s not getting on the democracy table. With VO controlling the menu it’s not likely to be on it for quite the future. The dumbing down… sure to get worse if things keep up.

Observer
Guest

OT
Hit Gyülekezete/ATV
The Faith Church and it’s St. Paul Academy will receive more than 750 million Ft gov grant. I guess Sándor Németh didn’t want to sell ATV and Orban didb’t want to just clobber the Faith Church (Christian values, remember) so he bought some influence; we’ll see if any personnel programming changes are announced in the beginning of year.

bimbi
Guest
With each passing week one is left wondering how much lower Viktor Orbán can sink – but then he can still surprise us by managing to plumb new depths, now using his own “Gang of Four” friends from up the river (well, more or less…) and a bundle of Hungarian tax payer’s money for an Alt-Right conference at which he, appropriately, will play centre stage. (Can the move to Horthy’s Palace be far behind?) As his second star performer he selects Milo Hanrahan, the Breitbart/Alt Right/advocate of sexual grooming for early teenagers/Flim-Flam man and failed author from Chatham in Kent to set the conference tone. He should do a good job. One ding-bat among many. Just to cheer us up, there is the hoary old joke now of the “Gang of Four” posing as the “the engine of Europe’s economy”, still and again. This assertion provides the measure of Orban’s understanding of economics; zero. Myself, I would have classed Orban and the Fidesz “gengszterek” already as Alt-Right and indeed that is confirmed by M.Schmidt’s Figyelő, in expressing “their” love for Mr. Hanrahan. Back in the 60s, this conference would have been described as a “love-in” and so it is, a… Read more »
Guest

Totally OT but funny – the biggest conspiracy theories of 2017 (for the USA):
Of course it had to happen:
favorite bugbear of conspiracy theorists everywhere George Soros is responsible for the surprising outcome of the Alabama election!
https://www.snopes.com/2017/12/29/2017s-biggest-conspiracy-theories/
Sometimes I don’t know whether to laugh or to cry …

bimbi
Guest

@wolfi7777, 6:53 a.m.

No, that can’t be right. After all, Roy Moore himself is on record talking about the result of his (non-) election that, “God is in control” – and if He says so, that must be right.

Member

If you believe two losers in their underwear in their own basement you deserve to be called a loser.

Ferenc
Guest

BREAKING
Just checked the “thing’s” website again, and there seem to be changes:
Under Programme/Program is now “coming soon / véglegesítés alatt”
I’m 100% sure yesterday (when I commented with a link) was as listed in Eva’s post!!

Hopefully somebody saved/copied yesterday’s text, and best keeps following all the changes in this “thing”.

PS: it’s called “The Future of Europe”, organized by OV&Co, representatives from their European ‘friends’ in the EPP are invited and/or given time to speak??

wrfree
Guest

Whoa… Europe is already ‘under the cosh’ already. And these ‘enlightened’ people are supposed to be the ‘problem solvers’ on the future of Europe? The ‘conference’: perhaps just an invitation to get a sandwich/drink combo in a fancy Magyar etterem and meet some alt-right friends. It’s a right gabfest alright.

And as for the ‘neue recht’ crackpots coming we will see if in the words of a raging Sybil Fawlty who complained insistently on the shoddy way in how things were ‘getting done’ around Fawlty Towers that she has seen more intelligent creatures on their backs in the bottom of ponds than we will ever see at this conference.

J Simon
Guest

Eva likes to label her opponents.
How about Hungarian Spectrum?
Neo-Marxist, rootless cosmopolitan, intellectually sterile, one sided, neither Hungarian nor a spectrum of diverse ideas, exhibiting a pathological hatred of Orbán Viktor.

bimbi
Guest

@J Simon, 9:07 a.m.

Gosh JS, I just don’t recognize any of your descriptors of Hungarian Spectrum as appropriate but perhaps you bring your own set of prejudices with you when you log on. I find that HS is informative, restrained, topical, concerned and consistent with European ideas about governance, civil freedoms and democracy – which is more than you can say of VO’s efforts at government. But it is good to have your voice too in the discussion.

Guest

Joe, you’re funny – made my day!
My (Hungarian) wife would probably call you a bunko paraszt – as a Hungarian she knows some really strong expletives but I won’t use them, not even on you or Orbán …

Istvan
Guest

I have come to believe a pathological hatred of Orbán Viktor is a positive trait.

petofi
Guest

Bravo, Istvan!
You have become a convert to the idea that…”Brevity is the Soul of Wit”–

Observer
Guest

István
Sometimes I’m almost ashamed of myself, athough my private hate is well founded on 17 years of observations. The Orbán mafia is Hungary’s worst enemy, nobody/nothing has caused more damage since Ràkossi or perhaps since Turkish rule.

Cujo
Guest

I am sure Mrs Balog does nothing to disturb your peace in your far right, white Christian Europe/Hungary, pro Fidesz and pro Putin world, so why do you put yourself through such an excruciating pain and read other opinions and ideas? Spare yourself, keep living in your bubble while a gang of thieves and extremists steal your Hungarian, white Christian future.

Farkas
Guest

@J Simon
December 30, 2017 9:07 am

What exactly do you mean by “Neo-Marxist”? Do you have the slightest idea of what you re talking about, or are you just talking through your hat?

Member

It’s a bit sad that Zsolt Jeszenszky’s lame enfant terrible act gets him into the government-sponsored mainstream and even into the pages of Hungarian Spectrum. Knowing Zsolt and his dad personally from years ago, I was hugely amused by the Heti Válasz piece about them – this isn’t online, but there are numerous retellings of it, e.g. https://444.hu/2017/08/24/embert-nem-semmisitettek-meg-meg-nyilvanosan-ugy-ahogy-jeszenszky-geza-volt-kulugyminiszter-a-sajat-fiat-dj-jeszit
It is also a sign of the times that Géza now seems like a positive force in Hungarian politics.

Marty
Guest
Voters in the centre simply ignore the extremist antics of Orban, or of Trump or or Kaczinski or of Yiannopoulos. This is why these politicians can get away with being extremist; centrists these days don’t care about these media shows, gimmicks, trollings. Why? Because centrist, non-aligned, pragmatist voters want politicians who at least superficially seem to care about them and who seem to able to defend them (from migrants, the negative forces capitalism – the dangers of the worls). When has Gabor Vona, Ferenc Gyurcsany, Gergely Karacsony etc. ever, I mean ever tell how they would improve and defend the lives of average joes? Let alone repeat that hopeful message a million times (like Orban repeated the term “polgar” when he did not yet own Hungarian media)? Why do these opposition figures think that voters will want to vote for them? Just because Orban etc. are associated with provocative, insane trolls? Hungarian voters don’t care about the opposition. They got to hate them so much in the last few years that they rather put up with ufologist, conspiracy-theorist, lunatic, corrupt, lying politicians because at least they seem to care about them (cut utility prices, increase minimal salary, issue pension bonuses… Read more »
Guest

Your sentence is illuminating:
lying politicians because at least they seem to care about them (cut utility prices, increase minimal salary, issue pension bonuses etc.).
They seem to care …
Every sane person of average intelligence should know that these measures are unreal or rather compensated by stealing somewhere else.
My wife e g (but she’s of higher than average intelligence, ok) saw through all of them and is laughing when some neighbour tries to “sell Fidesz”.
So what is the secret?
PS:
One shouldn’t forget that less than 50% voted for Fidesz – just as less than 50% voted for Trump1
Imho the problem lies with those who for whatever reason don’t go to vote – it’s tyoical for these (dare I say underdeveloped?) societies like Eastern Europe aka the Balkan or the USA.
If just another 10% of the voters had been mobilised and voted for the other side Trump and Orbán would have lost!
PPS:
We’re having a similar problem in Germany – voter participation has gone down in the last years, at the same time support for the extremists has grown though luckily not as much as in Hungary/Poland/Austria (!) …

Marty
Guest
Parties must (or rather should have; it’s not really credible to start doing it a month before elections) express day in and day out that they work for the average joe and how they will accomplish their plans to improve the lives of the average joe. The Hungarian opposition parties – left and right – forgot that they work for the “people”. They just don’t seem to care. I’m in the top 1% of the voters who most closely follow the media and the politics, maybe I’m in the top 0.1% of best informed voters. And – after 8 years of opposition politicking – I have zero idea what these parties stand for, what their core values are, what their vision is to improve the daily lives of average voters. Imagine then how much voters with 8 years of elementary can figure out from this mess. The opposition politicians (actually we) are very unlucky because Orban – besides being an autocrat commanding the entire state administration – is acutely aware of the thinking, the value system, the way of life and needs of the average joe. Orban is also good at projecting the image that he just doesn’t care about… Read more »
Guest

But on the other hand any “average Joe” should see that Fidesz is lying constantly, stealing from the country etc.
So why don’t the people see it – or don’t they want to see it, are they really that stupid? (At least those 40% which voted for fidesz last time …)

nvtln
Guest

It was the same with Gyurcsány as i recall. The socialists always promised to raise pensions. Also, by and large the same populist rhetoric was used by MSZP and FIDESZ for and against the dual citizenship in 2004 that they used for and against migrants. It’s no shocker the MSZP and the Gyurcsány party can’t beat them. Then there is Jobbik, for which no sane person will vote no matter how hard Vona tries to sell his Mikulás outfit. I think the only party devoid of. I think the only party that hasn’t engaged in these tactics yet in the parliament is LMP. They also talk some sense at least.

Marty
Guest

(Most) people know that Orban is corrupt, that he is constantly lying etc. I’m talking about people who are not fanatically Fideszniks. These people know exactly Orban’s disadvantages – but on balance they still prefer to get a utility rate cut or whatever once every four year (and ignore the extremist ideology stuff) than risk not getting anything or, worse, maybe getting screwed because the leftists – in their view – will prefer the urban, liberal, educated elite (whereas Kaczinski, Orban etc. did in fact implement measures which helped many average joes).

Since the opposition never talks about how it will help the average joe, such voters are vary and surmise: maybe the opposition parties do not want to help the average joe (which is also in line with the image of such parties. ie. that they tend to care about “educated” issues like human rights, rule of law etc.). But of this is so, they will not risk voting for the opposition. Many people got hurt by leftists (Bokros, Bajnai’s taking away the 13th month pension etc.) and such voters never received much apology, much sympathy from them.

Ferenc
Guest

Marty, Marty, Marty
“There you go again” (3-times!!)
…sad situation… opposition never…and so on… and so on…
…claim this, but write that…double tongue, pencil, keyboard, everything…

not helpful to anybody, except…ooovee…

Marty
Guest

It’s helpful because because this is a general symptom of leftist parties (Democrats, Social Democrats in Germany etc.). They don’t say anything to the voters any more, especially to their traditionally core voter base.

The extremism like this Yiannopoulos and his troll friends (including Orban’s insane conspiracy theories and lies) can thrive because average voters tolerate them, they simply ignore them. They don’t like those ideas, but they tolerate them.

Why? Because they hate the other side more. Why? Because the opposition abandoned such voters.

And this is a general conclusion and must be faced. The opposition has nothing to say to uneducated, working class folks who are anxious about various issues.

Why? I don’t know but this is a very important issue. Unless you change this fundamentally Orban, Kaczinski, Trump (or global warming denier fanatic Republicans) etc. will keep getting reelected and you’ll keep getting surprised how could this happen?

Ferenc
Guest

…just STOP writing what they DON’T do…
…instead START writing what they SHOULD do…
…and/or DO it yourself…

otherwise you really are NOT what you claim to be

Marty
Guest

I repeated what they should do. Start acting as though they care about the average voters.

Orban can afford to be extremist because his centrist voters don’t leave him. Why? Because such voters hate/fear the other side more. This is true for Republican voters in many Western states which used to elect Democratic senators etc. but not any more. They are done with elitists liberals.

Farkas
Guest

Marty, for what it’s worth, I completely agree with you, except on the point that anything whatever could be done by the leftists at this late stage. They missed the boat by light years, and recovery would take many years of talented strategies and tactics on their part, though I doubt very much that they would have what it takes for such an enormous task. Ferenc is indulging in wishful thinking in all of his responses to your posts.

Jean P
Guest

Marty usually answers critics of his comments with more of the same.
Ignore him.

Marty
Guest

Jean, I am trying to offer reasons and solutions for problems like this Yannopoulos thing. You can choose to be outraged any time you read such a story or you can choose to do something (if you’re politician). At least try to be self-critical and face reality. What I’m talking about is not uniquely Hungarian (in France the mighty Socialists disappeared entirely because they forgot their voters).

Populists like Orban very often do know how to cater to centrist, pragmatists voters especially when their adversaries abandoned such voters. They are tyrants but they also know that they must appeal to certain voters too. As Walter Benjamin said it aptly and it’s been repeated a million times recently: “every rise of fascism bears witness to a failed [communist] revolution”. In other words, the fascists gain a lot if the left leaves a vacuum in the political space (as it does in Hungary too).

Observer
Guest

My points too.

Member

Jean Paul, “Marty usually answers critics of his comments with more of the same.”
Now he answered to your critics. Didn’t you notice, that he offers reasons and solutions to problems.
This was for example another variation of the reason: Orbàn understands the people. The variation from the former comments here is, that the great Orbàn not only understands the “average Joe” (whoever that is), but now also “centrists and pragmatists” (whoever this is).
I think Marty understands all. and the solution is probably himself. I get the suspicion, that Marty is going to replace Orbàn soon. He could become the smartest politician for the next 70 years.
Good luck for that. I cross fingers, Marty.

Marty
Guest

Winston, you might actually turn out to be right :-), maybe not so soon, but in 5-10 years?

Ferenc
Guest

@Winston
‘m “going to replace Orban soon”
so M’s a by Deutsch designed robot…

nvtln
Guest

But they do, at least LMP. They are pointing out corruption, or call for revision in cases like the new Paks plant, that will swallow a lot of money.

Farkas
Guest
@wolfi7777 December 30, 2017 4:24 pm I have to absolutely agree with Marty, and Hungarians should have woken up to this horrific problem and done something about it before the Fidesz constitutional putsch in 2011. Now it is far too late. Given the nature of the leftwing parliamentary splinters and fragments, Blind Freddy could have seen this 2018 train wreck coming a long time go. I certainly did, and I live in Australia. I even posted about this from time to time in HS from about 2012 on, but was of course instantly and smartly shouted down by the guardians of leftwing rectitude who absolutely refused to see further than the end of their noses. Now the chickens have come home to roost. As to the inclination to vote or not to vote, here in Australia our constitution requires that all citizens compulsorily vote in all elections, from federal and state down to municipal. Anyone who fails to do so gets hit with a hefty fine. The system works just fine and no one feels that the compulsory voting requirement undermines in the slightest the liberal democratic nature of governance in Australia. In countries where compulsory voting is regarded as… Read more »
Marty
Guest
Thanks, I’m not saying original ideas, but ones which are obvious to people who dare to be critical. I am more hopeful than you in the sense that if the leftist politicians changed and could at least imitate that they ***care*** then voters would react positively. Orban changed from a very liberal politician to a fascist one and – although it took time – he did convince voters because he lived his new role, he wanted to change, he wanted to appeal. Politics is extremely difficult for the opposition especially in an autocracy but what I don’t get is why people like Karácsony, Vona, Gyurcsany, Gyula Molnár don’t even try talking about and to the average voters? Gyurcsany keeps posting on FB how he personally prepares kocsonya (a kind of pork jelly), he apparently understands that he must appeal to voters. But when he talks on TV he doesn’t say a thing how he will cut taxes or protect jobs or whatever – only about the intra-opposition power plays. He, like the rest, should ignore these interviews and spread the message how he will do this or that which will make your lives easier and repeat this a million times.… Read more »
Guest

I have to agree – the highest priority for the opposition politicians is to tell the people what they’ll change and do better than Fidesz, like no corruption …

Farkas
Guest
@Marty January 2, 2018 4:52 am You may not be putting forward original ideas (and neither do I), but you do have a whole lot of plain common sense, something which seems conspicuously absent in the posts of some of the more delusional wishful thinkers among our fellow contributors. By the way, one of the most significant points that you raised in some of your earlier posts is the extent to which Orbán is able to talk the talk and walk the walk of the Hungarian provinces, in terms of a persona that the political products of the Budapest liberal bubble are totally unable to duplicate. Orbán’s folksiness is most certainly a winner in the Hungarian provinces, however much, at least to me, it is obviously a pose he affects to cement his support among ordinary Hungarians who lap it up. However, we do differ on one point. Contrary to yourself, I think that the utterly clueless and totally talentless Hungarian left is completely beyond hope, even in the tactical realm of trying to attract voters by making empty promises to them. Strategy is of course completely beyond their ken, and successful strategies as far out of their reach as… Read more »
Gretchen
Guest

OOT: I may be the last to understand the usefulness of the pale yellow posts: they are the very ones I haven’t read! Thank you to whomever instituted this quiet and intelligent design element.

Tosh
Guest

Yeah Eva, it’s a white supremacists’ conference.

Whose headline speaker is married to a black man.

Ferenc
Guest

…currently supposedly headline speaker…actual program changed into: coming soon…
…and married to whoever, does NOT mean one can NOT be a white supremacist… speaking at such a meeting…
…that’s similar like trying to prove HU is currently a real democracy, by pointing out there were and are planned elections…

Guest

Even the very conservative German WELT reports negatively on the planned conference and its participants:
https://www.welt.de/politik/ausland/article172037539/Umstrittene-Konferenz-Goetz-Kubitschek-trifft-auf-Trump-Supporter-Milo-Yiannopoulos

Farkas
Guest

Cancelled.

Observer
Guest

You mean the dream encounter will not take place?
Joke aside, I’d be careful with the labels. Milo puts on a good provicative show, he raises valid issues in an eloquent if somewhat populist way claiming to defent free speech against stifling PC, etc. E.g. Milo confronts a lady opponent with the obvious example that her org should fight not anorexia, but obesity. I wish there were a couple like him on our side in Hun.
Ignore the roots of Tea Partt /trumpism at your peril, as in fact the left/ dem has been doing with very unfortunate results.

Farkas
Guest

Hi Observer

No, I didn’t mean to say anything about any dream encounter and I don’t understand what you are actually referring to.

I was merely trying to use the CANCEL button to take the post out, but it would not work, so in the end I had no choice but to delete the post by writing “Cancelled” over it.

:-)))

Observer
Guest

Farkas
I mean the Milo’s appearance was reported as cancelled, i.e. the macho Hun mustachios will not face the slick London gay, who boasted giving very good “heads”, and applaud him. Pity for the great show.

Observer
Guest

Re: Milo Y
While there is still no program of the great event on its site, Klubradio reported that M.Schmidt insisted on Milo and he’ll talk on another venue, as probably will Kubitschek, but with the “most transparent gov” you never know.

mmburka
Guest

Hungary could show solidarity by helping countries repatriate people not eligible for asylum.