It was in the middle of May that Népszava learned from Fidesz and government sources that Viktor Orbán had received an invitation from Chancellor Merkel and that Orbán, on his way to Berlin, would stop over in Bavaria. There he could expect a warm welcome from leading politicians of the Christlich-Soziale Union in Bayern (CSU), like Horst Seehofer, minister of the interior in the German government, and Wolfgang Schäuble, president of the Bundestag.
The invitation was interpreted in Hungary as a tribute of sorts to Orbán’s landslide electoral victory and also a kind of appreciation of the Orbán government’s defense of the Hungarian section of the Schengen border. A year ago, Népszava commented, German-Hungarian relations had reached rock bottom, from where they could only go up. As Géza Jeszenszky, foreign minister between 1990 and 1994, pointed out, Orbán will be with us for at least four more years, and threatening him with expulsion from EPP didn’t work; it was time to change tactics. Perhaps a friendly approach will be more successful in “taming” the Hungarian prime minister. Well, in my opinion, Jeszenszky has had enough experience with Viktor Orbán’s modus operandi that he should know that a friendlier approach is even more useless than a head-on confrontation.
In mid-May both the Hungarian and the German press also interpreted Merkel’s invitation as a gesture to Horst Seehofer, but, as later developments proved, if that is what Merkel had in mind, her strategy didn’t work. Seehofer was not moved by Merkel’s invitation of his Hungarian friend and threatened Merkel with his resignation. For weeks both the Hungarian and the German media were full of the German political crisis and paid little attention to Orbán’s pending visit to Berlin. In any case, the Hungarian government media was burying Merkel. According to Magyar Idők, Merkel’s fall is “both necessary and unavoidable.” While Merkel is on the way out, the Hungarian prime minister has reached such heights that he, the prime minister of a country of 10 million, can stand up against the chancellor of a Germany of 80 million people.
Meanwhile, behind the scenes, Angela Merkel began bilateral negotiations with 14 member states, including Hungary, about an arrangement by which these countries would take over migrants who were originally registered there. Merkel claimed that her negotiations were successful while Viktor Orbán, together with his Czech and Polish colleagues, denied the existence of any such agreement. Pesti Srácok went so far as to talk about “Merkel’s cheap lies,” only to learn a few days later from Viktor Orbán’s interview with Bild that he is ready to negotiate with Merkel about taking back migrants from Germany and Austria.
A few hours before the Merkel-Orbán meeting took place, two Hungarian political scientists decided to offer their predictions on the possible outcome of the talks. One of them, Dániel Hegedűs, who teaches at Humboldt University of Berlin, believed that at the encounter Orbán will have the upper hand because “Merkel is fighting for her political survival” and therefore will have to make serious concessions. Péter Krekó, an analyst with the Hungarian think tank Political Capital, looked upon the meeting “as a symbolic encounter by which the chancellor is sending a message to the German voters that her government is not opposed to the hard anti-migrant stance” Orbán represents.
Well, this is not exactly how the meeting turned out. At least this isn’t what we saw at the joint press conference after the encounter. HVG gave a minute-by-minute description of the press conference with the title “Merkel and Orbán almost had a quarrel at the press conference.” There was no compromise on the refugee issue. Merkel said of the meeting that “there were common points of view, but also opposing ones, as was to be expected. We see the migration issue very differently.” Orbán concurred, saying that “what we already knew has become clear: the chancellor and I see the world differently. Nevertheless, we strive for a common solution.”
But that was just the beginning. The arguments went on. Orbán complained about accusations of a Hungarian lack of solidarity. “It hurts us when Germany accuses us of showing no solidarity.” In fact, Hungary is “taking an immense load off Germany’s shoulders” by guarding its southern border with Serbia and Croatia. “I told the chancellor she can count on the fact that the southern Hungarian border is protected: migrants are not coming to Austria or Germany. And it will stay that way.” This argument didn’t move Angela Merkel, who countered that “the difference between us is that we always have to remember that it is people who are coming to us. It is a question of Europe’s basic humanity. Europe cannot simply ignore hardship and suffering.”
Western sources don’t dwell on an Orbán claim which the Hungarian media found outrageous. Orbán apparently lied about the number of refugees who want to enter Hungary from the south and from there travel to Austria and Germany. During the press conference he claimed that the fence prevents 4,000-5,000 migrants a day from entering the territory of the European Union. He somewhat dramatically announced that 8,000 men and women guard the border 24/7 with weapons in hand to defend Europe. The truth is that the migration pressure on Hungary’s southern border has trickled to practically nothing. In the last four days not one migrant tried to get into Hungary. In the whole month of June the number was 18. Yes, 18. Just yesterday Magyar Idők reported that the government is withdrawing the 4,000 soldiers who have been serving along the border for the obvious reason that there is no need for them.
The Hungarian anti-government media claim that Orbán is living in an alternate universe, and they cannot get over the fact that he had the temerity to come out with such ridiculous numbers. But the Orbán propaganda machine is already at work. Zoltán Kovács, Viktor Orbán’s communication wizard, is preparing the ground for the eventuality that a huge migrant invasion, as large as it was in 2015, is gathering force in Greece. He bases his opinion on a statement made by the mayor of Thessaloniki, who maintains that currently there are more migrants in Greece than there were in 2015. Kovács said that it was this mass of people in Greece that Orbán was talking about in Berlin. If there was no fence, these people would already be in the European Union. Is it true? We don’t know. Why does Kovács rely on the word of the mayor of Thessaloniki instead of some verifiable official data? Or, can we believe Origo’s report from Bosnia about thousands of refugees who overwhelm the cities? Origo’s regard for the facts is nonexistent.
But let’s go back to the Merkel-Orbán negotiations. It was evident from the press conference that, contrary to earlier predictions, Merkel didn’t crumble and didn’t give up her long-held views on the refugees and the common European way of handling them. So, what happened? Was her position not as shaky as some commentators thought?
I’ll offer a couple of possible explanations for Merkel’s courageous stand on the issue. First of all, Seehofer’s position was never as strong as his bluster indicated. CSU was losing support, and the resignation he threatened Merkel with, if accepted, would have ended his political career. Second, although Sebastian Kurz threatened to close Austria’s southern border if Germany sets up transit zones along the Austrian border, Kurz and Seehofer, who were having a conversation concurrently with the Merkel-Orbán talks, played down the dispute, claiming they had found common ground. So, it seems that the noise has subsided and most of the characters involved in this drama have thought the better of it. But Orbán doesn’t want to appear weak. His parting message was that he will lead a long legal battle on whether Hungary has to take back any refugees.

The government-controlled media in Hungary reminds one of a mindless mob of football hooligans who can only shout the one mantra for their ‘courageous’ chief. The self-important puffery of the Fidesz propaganda machine in full cry!
The Berlin port-discussion press conference underscored the gulf in policy and in ideas of solidarity with EU principles between Mrs. Merkel and Mr. Orbán. The German leader seeks humanitarian solutions on an international (EU) basis. Orbán has the vision of the cockerel atop his midden, crowing and strutting but offering nothing constructive. He is the infamous dog-in-the-manger. His vision of solidarity has no EU-wide dimension but is limited to the Meszaros-Tiborcz-Garancsy-Vajna-Matolcsy-Rogan rip-off operations to diminish Hungary’s wealth.
This was a meeting between a politician of international standing and a local European war-lord.
Mts Merkel is in a complicated situation – she has to acknowledge the totally different ideas of her coalition partners CSU and SPD -and Seehofer’s CSU is even worse:off:
The new CSU prime minister Söder is afraid of losing the elections in Bavaria in the autumn – the AfD on the right has to be fought, but if the CSU marches too far to the right it might lose some of its “real Christian voters”. Even the Catholic church has criticised some of its right wing ideas.
So we’re bound to have interesting times in Germany – I have to confess I’m not following them in detail because I detest the fake Christians of the CSU and parts of the CDU – really horrible intolerant liars!
And of vourse populism is again a strong force in Germany too – in these times with lots of changes many people look for easy solutions – we also have our bunko paraszts!
@wolfi7777
You know your German politics but right now Europe needs the stability and vision of solidarity that Angela Merkel offers.
AfD? = Agony for Deutschland
As I’ve said before Merkel’s situation is complicated – I guess that she’s had enough of the fascists in the CSU and her own CDU, she’s maybe “amtsmüde” but on the other hand there is no one to follow her. All those who would like to become chancellor of Germany are not intelligent enough and no strong personalities but little Seehofers maybe …
Fun fact:
Mr Spahn, one of the most active “conservative” guys (someone invented the term “contrarian” for people like him) who is rumored to want to become chancellor is gay (and a catholic!) but it seems his friends are Fascists who would like to send gays to jail (or worse …) like in the good old times …
Reminds me of Yannis (forgot the name – he was in Bp with Bannon) who also is very contrarian – but likes young black men … 🙂
And of course the new US ambassador to Germany, Mr Grenell whose ideas were described in breitbart (!) interviews – if you’re ready for some Trumpist/Fascist nonsense – read the comments there (more than 4000).
https://www.breitbart.com/london/2018/06/03/exclusive-ambassador-grenell-gives-stark-warning-over-woeful-readiness-of-nato-allies/
Wolfi
I suspect you meant there is nobody to succeed Merkel.
It’s Milo Yiannopoulos.
Wolfi if you would please be the ‘tanito’ of German..the last time I got into German was at university taking a how-to-read course.
‘amtsmude’.. I think I got the pronunciation but meaning would help. I am always trying to learn a bit of Euro languages. You see we can be quite provincial here. 😎👍
amtsmüde – tired out by her office
Danke for the Nemet vocab session..
Thanks, yes I meant follow her in her job.
English with all those latin words is sometimes a problem for me even though I learned Latin at the Gymnasium …
I almost wrote “to success Merkel” … 🙂
That you could call a Freudian slip!
Very funny:
Seems that Mrs Merkel in the discussion once spoke of the “Balkan lake” – should have been Lake Balaton … 🙂
My wife agreed that Merkel’s body language clearly showed what she thinks of the big O too 🙂
PS and OT:
What did MNB do to “push down” the HUF/€ exchange rate from 330 to 323?
Or was this just a correction?
Lake Balaton heisst Plattsee auf deutsch, ich glaube. 🙂
Here’s the video of Mrs Merkel where she thanks “lieber Viktor” and then remarks that many tourists returned to the Balkansee – äh Baikalsee, äh Plattensee … 🙂 https://index.hu/mindekozben/poszt/2018/07/05/merkel_orszag-vilag_elott_balkanozott_le_minket_oke_csak_veletlenul/ I almost believe that it was a joke on her side … In Germany we have the expression “jemand auslachen” – that’s what she did: laugh at the big O … PS: Some of you may know that in Kádár times a holiday at the Balaton was often the only way for families from East and West Germany to meet – and of course the Westerners paid and brought presents- sometimes stuff which had been produced in east Germany but wasn’t available there (only in special shops for the party bosses …) So Balaton or Plattensee had a special meaning for many East Germans – wonderful memories … Then when the wall fell, many people of course went to Italy and Spain, places which had been off limits for them and Hungarian tourism suffered. Now many East Germans have realised that Hungra is not only good for a nice holiday – but also much cheaper, that’s why they are returning here! We see a lot of East German licence plates right… Read more »
Yesterday I understood that the “Bully from BreitBart” is still in Europe, end of May he first spoke for a selected bunch in Budapest, and then went to Italy, Switzerland, France and Spain, staying with his local favorites there (e.g.Lega, Front National).
As far as I know he didn’t visit anybody in Germany. Didn’t he make up his mind who to support there (AfD or CSU)? Could there be much more behind the Seehofer – Merkel brawl, than appears at first sight (Bavaria elections)? I don’t have any answers to these questions, but would not be surprised if both should be replied with YES, and OV, the EMIGRATION CAUSING PM, was BfB’s intermediary towards the CSU.
All as an “unofficial start” of the campaign for the EU elections next spring.
More infos at https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jun/06/steve-bannon-far-right-radicalise-europe-trump and
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jun/28/europe-mini-trump-brexit-britain-viktor-orban
Good of Merkel to remind us of the fact that we are talking about people here and to stand by her principles. A brave thing to do in times like this. Not many politicians will follow her example, too scared of losing votes. As long as we don’t look at the inequalities in the world, a true solution will not be found. There are people in this world living in such bad situations, we should expect and could have predicted this to happen. Are we expecting them to just sit and accept poverty, abuse, war etc, like good victims. What are we like when we have nothing to lose? We don’t think of victim behaviour as a good characteristic for a person. We should be brave, proactive and hard-working in order to lift ourselves out of the swamp. Yet an African should be a meek victim and stay there and undergo whatever unfair situation they are submitted to. They should fight for their own country and not seek to improve their lives by migrating. They should not put their children through this. Etc, etc. Different set of values for us than for them. Sounds like another characteristic of the North-South… Read more »
From an article in the Guardian 6 July 2018 on George Soros:
“According to Popper, open societies guarantee and protect rational exchange, while closed societies force people to submit to authority, whether that authority is religious, political or economic.”
https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/jul/06/the-george-soros-philosophy-and-its-fatal-flaw
Long live the ideas of Karl Popper and George Soros on “The Open Society”!
And now compare this with the idiocies that some people put on the ‘net re Soros – the craziest thing is putting up a picture of someone else and claiming this is Soros as an SS officer – when he was only 14 yers old at the time WW2 ended!
Though sites like snopes have debunked this a thousand times the fascists always repeat it:
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/george-soros-ss-nazi-germany/
And if you’re in the mood for some crazy fun – if MZ and zoli are not enough …: – then search snopes for “Soros” you’ll find connections to Obama and other nonsense … 🙂
Obviously the world is full of bunko paraszt who will believe anything!
:
Re: “the fascists always repeat”
… and Putingrad’s troll brigade…
I’d think that this era for future historians will be a nightmare to go through. Oh yeah there is wonderful ‘Facebook’ where ‘privacy’ is a figment of the imagination. But it is here that social media will own the moniker as ‘useless’ if anybody thinks it can operate as what’s called a ‘primary source’ of ‘facts’.
Orban:
no to control the nepotism, the corrupt spending of EU funds,
no to independence of judges,
no to freedom of press,
no to freedom of assembly,
no to the autonomy of universities and research (MTA)
no to election without massive cheating.
Merkel:
silence
The destruction of the internal election documents and data will start tomorrow and will have been finished by 5 PM Monday.
I have not heard of any international or national organizations demanding the release of these documents and data held by the Orban regime.
In the published data, the numbers do not add up. The opposition parties do not care. The outside world does not care either.
Sad.
Tappanch
Surely more had to be done about the mismatching figures, ie. the suspected election fraud. However, practically there would have been no tangible consequences even if fraud was proved, eg. the historical scale of the embezzlement orgy by Orbán and mafia is well known by everyone, but didn’t affect the results. The opposition politicians clearly see the futility of such effort….
Doesn’t matter. Why should information on a public election be destroyed? Those are public documents and thus should be preserved, if for no other reason than because future historians can examine them and draw conclusions.
With today’s technology and storage capabilities there is no reason why any public documents ever have to be destroyed.
Shoopy
“Why should I do…”
Don’t know the original reasoning, but this has been the law for decades afaik.
Mrs Merkel’s expressions having to look at the big O were enough.
She probably wants to leave some decisions to the courts – like the independence of judges where we have the same problem in the other Christian country aka Poland.
Things have to get really bad before they can get better …
Don’t forget that Merkel grew up in “Communism” where she had to accept or at least live with even worse things!
I have the feeling that her “reign” will end with a bang -not with a whisper … 🙂
As I’ve said before I don’t see any real, sane and honest politician in the CDU/CSU!
Re: Merkel growing up in communism..
Everytime Orban and Merkel meet I always think his mind is running overtime in thinking how in the world did Germany pull it off scrambling out of the dalliances with communism and fascism? It must be terrible to see how incapable a state has become to exist in a morass and bumble around in it. The truth has to hurt be cause of the incompetence.
A snapshot of the hobby of the despot:
Spending on the Hungarian Football (Soccer) Union.
2017 vs 2010: a 9.75-fold increase
Orban spent about 5 billion euros on “sports” between 2010 and 2017.
What % of this amount went to friends and family?
https://mfor.hu/cikkek/makro/sokkolo-kozel-1500-milliardot-toltak-orbanek-a-sportba.html
https://444.hu/2018/04/04/1500-milliardot-koltott-az-orban-kormany-sportra
https://444.hu/2018/07/06/ket-kezzel-szorta-a-penzt-az-emmi-olyan-sportesemenyekre-amiket-a-budapesti-olimpiara-hivatkozva-rendeztek-meg
Balance of the government revenue and spending:
cumulative actual deficit at the end of the month as the % of the planned deficit for the entire year:
And this is happening in the best possible international economic environment for Hun and with the marked deterioration of the major redistribution systems, ie depleting the reserves and using future funds. Terrible trends ever more exposing the weakened Hun to future unfavorable turns.
Nice for the the EU to give the opportunity of open bank vaults:
Something that arguably could come from ‘Slick Willie’ Orban…😎 This is the big ‘O’ running on a ‘high’….
‘Why did I rob banks? Because I enjoyed it. I loved it. I was more alive when I was inside a bank, robbing it, than at any other time in my life. I enjoyed everything about it so much that one or two weeks later I’d be out looking for the next job. But to me the money was the chips, that’s all……Willie Sutton
And 5 billion forints clinking in the coffers for foci….no doubt a real bag’o’shells in all the pilfering…but maybe not one to custom fit a suit or pair of pants fitting for a ‘leader’. Heck even POTUS wants his cuffs to look sharp out there as he struts in front of the tee-vee cameras. Image is all.
Re: the ‘courageous’ stand of Merkel
Place that in context of her meeting up with a reigning Prince Prospero hiding snugly behind his abbey with his knights as the ‘Red Death’ appears to be devastating the lands about his country. He believes the ‘pestilence’ is without yet they can be safe and live life normally within the strong walls that keep the sickness out. This is life as fairy tale.
Yes, Merkel and Orban view the world differently. The former’s view approaches the refugee problem with an active realism for it will not go away. It must be directly addressed with understanding not with belligerence. The latter though thinks only walls can provide a comfortable existence in the face of realities that will press hard on the country. The ignorance is astounding.
Some may think by trying to evade the looming horror the ‘Prince’ shows his ‘sagacious and dauntless’ mind. On the contrary it indelibly shows his deep deep fears caught up in things that he cannot ultimately control.
Spiegel online just now:
http://www.spiegel.de/einestages/konferenz-von-evian-1938-kein-asyl-fuer-juedische-fluechtlinge-a-1216376.html
History repeats itself. Whether as a tragedy or as a farce, that is probably a matter of interpretation.
Not too much OT:
One of the most outspoken enemies of Mrs Merkel and her refugee politics is Petr Bystron – once in the Liberal FdP but now in the German parliament for the AfD.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petr_Bystron
German wiki has lots more info on him, connections to fascist organisations, the Kopp publisher and so on. He’s a really ugly fascist and:
He fled the Czech Republic with his parents in 1987, so he’s an economic migrant himself …
Now why does this remind me of our trolls MZ and zoli?
Is this what O has been dreaming of?
http://cdn4.spiegel.de/images/image-1311977-galleryV9-vcwv-1311977.jpg
Orbanisation … 🙂
Off topic but I found it fascinating. A few days ago I wrote about the tendency in Hungarian to use the familiar fairly indiscriminately. Here is a truly striking example. The boy is not quite 15 and he turns to the two reporters who are old enough to have children of their own and begins with “sziasztok.” After that introduction he keeps calling one of the reporters, Robi. A few years back that would have been unimaginable.
http://www.atv.hu/videok/video-20180706-tizenevesen-mar-influenszer
Interested to see OV’s ‘Strohmann’ Empire?
Watch this (virtual) tour including drone recordings
In Hungarian, unfortunately no subtitles (yet…)
source: https://english.atlatszo.hu/2018/07/06/drone-video-this-is-how-the-meszaros-empire-looks-from-above/
PS: will Merkel ever make such a trip…
Ms Balogh appears an even greater wizz at communicating porkies than Mr Zoltan Kovacs.