Fidesz in 1988

Thanks to the miracles of modern technology, we can now easily access Hungarian daily newspaper coverage of the years just before the collapse of the one-party political system. Although it is true that without the Soviet leadership’s acquiescence the opposition forces most likely wouldn’t have been able to establish a multi-party democracy, in 1988 and 1989 Hungary  was the scene of intense political dialogue and burgeoning political organizations. In November 1988, Reform, a newspaper which described itself as “the first independent, democratic paper after many decades,” listed 30 “alternative organizations” already in existence, including Magyar Demokrata Fórum, Fidesz, and Új Márciusi Front. The paper also listed several independent trade unions.

Fidesz, which was established on March 30, 1988 as an alternative to KISZ (Kommunista Ifjúsági Szövetség), was constantly in the news by the fall of that year. But Viktor Orbán, who later came to dominate the student organization and eventually the party, was nowhere to be found in 1988 because he had rather unexpectedly been called up to serve another stint in the army. During this period, Zsolt Németh, later undersecretary in the ministry of foreign affairs, often represented Fidesz in interview situations. He, together with Gábor Fodor and Tamás Deutsch, essentially ran the show. And they marketed themselves effectively. By the time Fidesz held the first leg of its maiden congress on October 1-3 and the second leg on November 19-20, Fidesz was practically a household word.

After the October part of the congress, László Juszt, the well-known television reporter, interviewed four members of the Fidesz board — Tamás Deutsch, Zoltán Rockenbauer, Mihály Szécsényi, and Gábor Fodor — in Reform. Juszt, who apparently attended this historic congress, compared the proceedings to a squadron meeting of grade-seven pioneers. Moreover, claimed Juszt, the way the Fidesz leadership outlined the structural framework of Fidesz “it weirdly reminds one of the structure of MSZMP.” He predicted that the new student organization would not survive. How wrong he was, as was László Kövér, now speaker of the Hungarian parliament, who delivered a speech during the first part of the Fidesz congress in which he expressed his belief that “it is not likely that Fidesz will ever be a significant, sweeping political force.”

From the outset, the main concern of the KISZ and MSZMP leaderships was that Fidesz’s official name, Fiatal Demokraták Szövetsége, didn’t include the word “szocialista.” According to those present at the birth of Fidesz, a minority, including Kövér, preferred a name that included the adjective, but apparently it was not a divisive issue. “Fidesz” appealed to them. An alternative combination with the word “socialist” in it sounded awkward. At least this is the impression I gained from an interview that Gábor Fodor gave early on. Yet later, a unified response must have been adopted by the spokesmen of the organization because all of them explained when interviewed why the organizers had shunned the socialist label. Over time, they said, the word had been applied to so many divergent regimes that “socialism” had become almost meaningless. The Soviet Union under Stalin was a “socialist” country, as were Yugoslavia, China, and North Korea. Moreover, there was also “national socialism” and “Christian socialism.” Better to avoid the term altogether.

So, in this respect, the speech that László Kövér delivered during Fidesz’s October 1988 congress, the transcript of which István Vágó, the DK politician, discovered lately and posted on Facebook, was not out of line. He was just repeating the early party line, so to speak. In it, Kövér, who today sees communists hiding behind every bush, declared himself to be a committed socialist. As he said, “for me socialism’s core value is tolerance, which includes the respect of political convictions, including the possibility of establishing other non-socialist political organizations.” In fact, Kövér was quite capable in those days of being perfectly civilized and of participating in discussions between KISZ and Fidesz. Moreover, he expressed Fidesz’s willingness to get involved in the legislative process that was being prepared, which was supposed to establish a bona fide rule of law in Hungary (Esti Hírlap, November 16, 1988).

László Kéri, the still active political scientist, gave an interview at the time in which he pointed out that there was barely any difference in political views between the Fidesz leaders and the reformists within KISZ (Magyar Nemzet, November 16, 1988). For example, a highly placed KISZ leader declared in A Jövő Mérnöke, the student paper of the Budapest Technical University, that “within a year there will be a multiparty system in Hungary” (October 7, 1988). About a month later, Ferenc Gyurcsány, who was president of the university section of KISZ, announced that some of Fidesz’s suggestions at the meeting should be incorporated into the rules of an umbrella organization which would include several student organizations (Népszava, November 28, 1988). KISZ by then had a “reform office,” whose director predicted that “the multi-party system” was inevitable (Képes7, November 26, 1988).

In brief, the old order was coming to an end and Fidesz was among the alternatives waiting in the wings. As Mihály Szécsényi, a member of the first Fidesz board, said, Fidesz doesn’t want to cooperate with KISZ but wants to coexist with it (Képes7, November 5, 1988). The coexistence came to naught because KISZ simply died on April 22, 1989.

June 6, 2020
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Joseph Simon Simon
June 6, 2020 9:01 pm

The US is literally burning now for the second week.
You are playing on your little ukulele while all US cities are in flames.
What is OV compared to the explosives race relations around you.
Guns, violence, police brutality, killings. Some worthwhile social issues for your formidable talents.
 

Jan
Jan
June 6, 2020 9:13 pm

To Joseph double Simon, if you want to be informed about the situation in the US I advise you to google a bit for other sites.
New York Times, Washington Post, Huffington Post, Politico, The Guardian, are some examples you could try to google. I wish you lots of success.

Misi bacsi
Misi bacsi
June 6, 2020 10:33 pm
Reply to  Jan

You are correct Jan in your response to Mr. Simon. While it is often appropriate to attach other topics to Hungarian Spectrum topics, it is useful to at least reference in the Hungarian topics. In any case, Hungarian Spectrum is well informed about the tragedy in the US, let alone most of its readers are as well. Moreover, Orban helped model the way forward for the likes of Trump, disasters for both countries.

Ovidiu
Ovidiu
June 7, 2020 2:23 am

“Some worthwhile social issues for your formidable talents.”
 
Not really, in fact it is rather awkward. US nowadays is a textbook example of how a ‘failed democracy’ looks like. I mean a literal ‘failed democracy’, object-lesson for those interested in political theory, not improperly -figuratively as this term is often used here at HS in order to score cheap (propaganda) points against Viktor Orban. From this point of view, Hungary is pretty fine thank you.
 
In a country as polarized and divided (both ideologically and along the ‘diversity’ lines) as US, democracy begins to malfunction as neither side can accept electoral defeat. If Trump wins again it will be blood on the streets.
The simple truth is that political freedom relies on, requires a shared political culture. When this common culture disintegrates under the impact of mass migrations only institutionalized force can hold the state together. 
 
 
 
 

Last edited 1 year ago by Ovidiu
wolfi7777
June 7, 2020 3:35 am
Reply to  Ovidiu

Ovodiot – mass migration in/to the USA?
Maybe in the eyes of a fascist white supremacist like you – next you’ll be telling us that Greta T and Soros are behind this … 🙂 🙂
The mass migration happened several hundred years ago when white Europeans invaded North America – but that’s ok with you.
 

István
István
June 7, 2020 3:55 am
Reply to  wolfi7777

Somehow he is right. Without any migration to the USA the world wouldn’t have to deal with Trump, there were no whites and even no blacks would have been sold there centuries ago. It would be a country of the First Nations. Nobody knows whether they would live in peach with each other, but these riots of today wouldn’t have happened out of the same reason. But on the other side to call Afro Americans immigrants is not just a little bit beyound reality.

Bimbi
Bimbi
June 7, 2020 5:27 am
Reply to  wolfi7777

wolfi7777, 3:35 am
I fear I must correct you. The USA has always been a “nation of immigrants” (although each group, after arriving are usually the most vociferous in wanting to pull up the gangplank”) and that situation continues still, principally from South America – folk looking for a better life for themselves but especially for their children and are prepared to work and work to get it. The US is justly proud of its record (overall in this – we all know about bumps in the road as the nation grew) and by this means it has grown to be the world leader and a light against what seems now to be a growing darkness.
 
America, ’tis of thee, sweet land of liberty, let freedom ring.

araf
araf
June 7, 2020 2:50 pm
Reply to  wolfi7777

Calling people names is not much of a respectable form of argument.

wolfi7777
June 7, 2020 3:40 pm
Reply to  araf

You should read what Ovidiot had to say on Greta T.
Btw calling NYT and WaPo “leftwing” is almost funny – at least it shows “Wes Geistes Kind” you are.

Bimbi
Bimbi
June 7, 2020 3:37 am
Reply to  Ovidiu

Read your last paragraph again, Invidious, it perfectly fits the battle-ready criminal Orbán regime, with (at least) three private armies at the ready to deal with any coming insurrection.
Tyúk, Tyúk, Meglátjuk…
 
PS Otherwise your post is the usual undigested horse crap. For all the veneer, you really are rather ignorant.

Last edited 1 year ago by Bimbi
Bimbi
Bimbi
June 7, 2020 5:37 am
Reply to  István

Sometimes it is appropriate to say things twice.

István
István
June 7, 2020 9:50 am
Reply to  Bimbi

Quod licet iovi non licet bovi?

Bimbi
Bimbi
June 7, 2020 5:57 am
Reply to  Ovidiu

What a jumped-up, impertinent little gas-bag this Invidious is, who from his decades of experience judges the United States of America as a “failed democracy”.
 
Listen rather to the words of Emma Lazarus:
 
“Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
“Keep ancient lands your storied pomp!” cries she
With silent lips. “Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door.”
                               The New Colossus
She did and she will tomorrow too…

Reality Check
Reality Check
June 7, 2020 9:17 am
Reply to  Ovidiu

Rascist idiot.

wolfi7777
June 7, 2020 2:30 am

You might have to try to read the name of this blog, simon square.
HS stands for what?
Of course there are many sites where the situation in the USA is discussed (and I’m sure that many of the contributors here like me are active there) – and the problems of Russia, China and so on.
On the other hand you might be right in a kind of way:
Little Hungary is too unimportant and irrelevant for most people interested in politics and concerned about today’s society …

wrfree
wrfree
June 7, 2020 9:35 am
Reply to  wolfi7777

Re: the ‘New Colossus’..   It’s evident most here do ‘get’ this ‘great experiment’ created back in the late 18th of a community of individual states which live by a Constitution which is our ‘blueprint’ for governance. It is a document which breathes core principles at the same time it insures flexibility for changes which the Founders saw as inevitable. The way it is written insures the country can ‘update’ itself as to how it should carry out the laws and influence the nation’s conscience when it comes to stewarding human rights especially especially that of its minorities.   There is no need to be ‘royal’ to take part in and influence opinion as to a country’s direction. It is sufficient that one be a ‘citoyen’ who lives, works and prays to whomever in an environment which tries to enhance opportunities for ‘life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness’. Of course this is not perfection. But it is a different type of society than some others we know about. But for a long while now it is apparent that the US has been and still is beacon of freedom. The people from all over the world keep coming.   And… Read more »

Last edited 1 year ago by wrfree
István
István
June 7, 2020 2:41 am

Why do you search that topic on Hungarian Spectrum? Why not on American Spectrum?

If you are interested in social issues, how the Hungarian state acts against disadvantaged humans, you might be interested in this https://444.hu/2020/06/06/71-napra-bortonbe-zartak-egy-ertelmi-serultet-szabalysertes-miatt

Bimbi
Bimbi
June 7, 2020 3:42 am
Reply to  István

Istvan like a doggie chasing bitches in heat again. Let it go, man. No need to dignify such a post with a response.

Gyula Bognar Jr
June 7, 2020 12:28 pm

This blog is NOT about domestic issues, for that you must go somewhere else.

Misi bacsi
Misi bacsi
June 6, 2020 10:27 pm

The post tonight on the origins of Fidesz is an important contribution in understanding Fidesz today. For example, Laszlo Kover’s comment about the importance of tolerance (to him) as inherent in “socialism” including the “importance of establishing non socialist organizations” is remarkable, especially given what he stands for today. Professor Balogh -unearthing his quote is remarkable, let alone how it occupies a key section in the post tonight. Very clear today that “tolerance” was not so important to Kover after all and even in 1988-89, a few prescient
Hungarians saw through the “Lenin boys” of the 1980s i.e. Laszlo Juszt
 
Being in Hungary through out this period, I initially had some favorable impressions about Fidesz until I read the precise words Orban used at Imre Nagy’s re-burial. At that point, I realized he was really full of himself .Fast forward to the present, Orban is even worse than I could have
ever imagined in 1988-89.

Bimbi
Bimbi
June 7, 2020 3:45 am
Reply to  Misi bacsi

@Misi bacsi, 10:27 pm
It would be interesting to hear what it is that you don’t “understand” about “Fidesz today”. No, really…

István
István
June 7, 2020 4:01 am
Reply to  Misi bacsi

“Orban is even worse than I could have ever imagined in 1988-89.”

Well, I am expecting the worst from Orbán and his brothers in ill spirit every single day. But he is constantly surpasses my imagination to the worse. My brains don’t even allow such a bad imagination as he acts.

wrfree
wrfree
June 7, 2020 2:21 pm
Reply to  István

Just an observation from an interested kulfoldi on the now state of my ancestral nation.   Fidesz and its ‘apparat’ in hindsight reminds of an energetic ‘lakatos’ at work. They originally set up shop selling the keys which would ‘open up’ a nation to another way from those earlier communists. A veritable ‘democratic glasnost’ supposedly opened up to clean and nstill better air. And for that they knew they had to get through and into household doors to make their case. Eventually Fidesz gradually became what they are now and that is the entire nation’s locksmiths. They control the ‘keys to the kingdom’.   And they’ve locked things up pretty good. In fact their keys have been made to open up almost all of the locks within the nation’s doorstops. Today more than enough Magyar households apparently still do not realize that they are letting Fidesz make the keys that can pick and open virtually every lock. It is more like they live now in fiefdoms given in homage and fealty to the Lord of the Manor. They may live in their castles but the keys are in Fidesz hands. Duplicate upon duplicate. This can put verdant places that look… Read more »

Last edited 1 year ago by wrfree
araf
araf
June 7, 2020 2:58 pm
Reply to  Misi bacsi

Good grief! A politician who is full of himself? How unusual!

dos929
dos929
June 7, 2020 12:50 am

I suspect that the Orban-boys were wolves in sheep’s clothing ever since their college days. It is hard to prove if they intentionally set out to use stealth techniques how to get hold on power via establishing a ‘progressive’ youth organisation in those stirred up waters in Hungarian politics of the late eighties, but sure enough and soon enough Orban realised the way to rise to the top and transform himself and his Fidesz from quasi Liberals to right-wing nationalists and worse. They were and are no other than opportunists who took every turn of events around them to take advantage on their own path to power and the path to enrich themselves beyond their own wildest dreams at the expense of their fellow citizens.   Their history, their actions and the way they have achieved their goals, speaks lauder than words and a witness to their underhanded and deceptive methods of gaining and keeping power. One can bicker about whether or not those that have risen to the higher echelon of politics are all ruthless and heartless human beings, but it cannot be denied that Orban and his fellow travellers do fit the bill.   Now, if one however… Read more »

dos929
dos929
June 7, 2020 1:54 am
Reply to  dos929

“..speaks louder than word…” » sorry about the typo above…

Bimbi
Bimbi
June 7, 2020 1:42 am

DAY 69 OF THE EVERLASTING ORBÁN DICTATORSHIP
 
most már ténleg elég volt!

Ovidiu
Ovidiu
June 7, 2020 1:48 am

“In fact, Kövér was quite capable in those days of being perfectly civilized and of participating in discussions between KISZ and Fidesz.”
 
He is quite capable today of that, if need be. It is just that he has taken over the role of ‘madman’ and court-jester (Jirinovsky-style as in Putin’s Russia) and now plays the assigned role.
In every society there is a sector of the public (of 5-20%) which is truly nuts and capable of believing anything. Kover addresses them, represents and expresses them, and thus secures their votes for Fidesz.
 
 

Last edited 1 year ago by Ovidiu
István
István
June 7, 2020 2:46 am
Reply to  Ovidiu

Very capable…
 
comment image?w=680
 
Sorry, pictures are blown up to that extent that you can’t see even half of it, even if the original is pretty small
 
https://papaigabor.wordpress.com/2020/06/05/kortars-galeria/
 

Last edited 1 year ago by István
wolfi7777
June 7, 2020 7:26 am
Reply to  István

orulunkvincent.blog.hu is a really interesting and funny site!
Actually there are several sites trying to explain or rather demolishing the Fid idiocies by means of satire.
 

Last edited 1 year ago by wolfi7777
wrfree
wrfree
June 7, 2020 11:05 am
Reply to  Eva S. Balogh

Wow.. Vinnie’s piece was a real lighter-upper’. Liked that ancient motif he had in there. There’s a lot on his site.

With Quentin as director and Vincent as script writer they could make a satiric film on the antics of the Orbán era and the people in it.

And the language! Mr T could have a knockaround with the language that hardly anybody knows or understands. He likes to play with language in all his films. He knows there’s always a force of power in it.

And it would make satirical sense to highlight those who expressly feel and want to keep it that way. And it’s worse when they like to explain and go to a language called ‘inglish’.

Last edited 1 year ago by wrfree
wolfi7777
June 7, 2020 12:22 pm
Reply to  Eva S. Balogh

Eva, thanks for this!
She was a Schwab even and lived and died near the Bodensee but I never heard about her.
PS:
Was that a spelling error or typical Hungarian mistake when you called her a “he”?
My wife’s son still has that problem – because his teacher said he/she/it was too complicated for him … 🙂 🙂

Misi bacsi
Misi bacsi
June 7, 2020 12:04 pm
Reply to  István

Great cartoon. Thank you.
 

Last edited 1 year ago by Misi bacsi
István
István
June 7, 2020 2:43 am

Kövér: “it is not likely that Fidesz will ever be a significant, sweeping political force.”

Dit he already in 1988 say that he was member of the mafia, not of a political party?

Bimbi
Bimbi
June 7, 2020 3:29 am

An old joke, which now sounds rather dated: “If a young man is not a Communist at the age of 20, he deserves a good kick in the pants; if he is still a Communist at the age of 30, he deserves a good kick in the pants.”
 
It looks as if our old warrior Lászlo Kövér in his youth followed this progression as a card-carrying MSZMP adherent, even advocating “socialism and (Gasp!) tolerance. We must allow youth its wild enthusiasms but after that phase passed Laci has regressed over the years into a tired old reactionary.
 
These days as Speaker of the essentially moribund parliament, he seems to get his jollies by levying fines – the more outrageous the better – against MPs he disagrees with as well as running a policy of dogged misogyny: “Ya gotta hate them uppity women!” And of course on his weekends he loves to play the old Trianonanist, bemoaning the victimization of ol’ Magyarország, whose government, on receiving the “lost territories” back via Adolf Hitler, promptly deported many of the citizens to the Polish death camps.
       
Where is the tolerance when you need it, one may ask?
 

Last edited 1 year ago by Bimbi
János Széky
June 7, 2020 6:43 am

Be careful. The card, which you use for an illustration, is a fake, or rather, a prank by the blogger jotunder at “Örülünk, Vincent?” (take a closer look at the stamp). There was no “Institute of Political Science” attached to the Central Committee; there was an Institute for Social Sciences, which was quite respectable, and Kövér was kind of an intern there. Yes, he had socialist views, and he was close to István Stumpf, who made him a member of the Youth Council of the Patriotic People’s Front in 1988/1989.

Tyrker
Tyrker
June 7, 2020 6:51 am

The post itself is interesting, but Kövér’s entry permit is not real. It is a tongue-in-cheek graphic created by the bloggers of orulunkvincent.blog.hu. If you take a closer look at the stamp, you can actually make out the words “Örülünk, Vincent”.

Jan
Jan
June 7, 2020 10:17 am

OT, an interesting article in the dutch newspaper Trouw about private help for Roma families in Hungary.
https://www.trouw.nl/buitenland/alleen-romafamilies-met-meer-dan-vijf-kinderen-krijgen-vandaag-een-geel-tasje-met-eten~b4c3126e/
 
And an article about the same topic:
https://444.hu/2020/04/26/most-senki-nem-tud-adni-egy-darab-kenyeret-sem

Last edited 1 year ago by Jan
Michael Detreköy
Michael Detreköy
June 7, 2020 11:47 am
Reply to  Jan

That must be the EU-funded program which started last year. The idea is to improve the generally poorer health of the Roma, by providing one warm meal per day to those in need. The HU county administration of the program typically takes the opportunity to zealously discriminate among the poor, by stipulating that unemployment with less than 5 children doesn’t constitute enough need for the aid. I have a strong suspicion that most of the money is spent on administration of the program, which entails kitchen facilities, personnel training-courses on kitchen/food storage hygiene and health authority standards and regulations (the “smiley-reports”), inspection and report-making at the facilities. Although a part of the food probably comes from the EU surplus-stocks of food, kept for the purpose of regulating market prices (remember the scandalous “butter mountains, grain mounds and beef humps” of the 70’s and 80’s and 90’s?) A lot of food must be bought locally. The opportunity to bring down the unemployment numbers for ethnic HU women, by employing local unemployed women for these kitchens, is also of political value and at the same time it gives an opportunity to discriminate the unemployed local Roma women, by making mandatory written courses… Read more »

Last edited 1 year ago by Michael Detreköy
Jan
Jan
June 7, 2020 4:18 pm

To Micheal, according to their homepage they are independent, if you have better information please give me a link, so I can inform the dutch journalist he fell in a trap here.
https://www.orct.hu/rolunk/

Michael Detreköy
Michael Detreköy
June 7, 2020 5:32 pm
Reply to  Jan

They could very well be operated as independent. The only catch to that being a revision of the procedures for obtaining approval for “charity organizations and public feeding of needing people”. These revisions were made a few years ago, as part of the drive to limit the activities of NGO’s and some local groups who organized the serving of meals for poor families in central squares in some of the larger provincial towns and cities.
The resulting daily long food-lines of mostly ordinary Hungarian families, schocked many people and spawned a poverty debate, stoked by some of the opposition. It didn’t take the Fid. leaders long to restrict the media’s use of the word “poverty” in favor of ” state of lacking” and at the same time it was forbidden to serve the food outdoors, which of course limited the NGO’s capacity for serving food for larger numbers of people.
Furthermore, organizations have to apply and obtain a political (called “legal”) approval of the charity from the county administration.
Last year, the EU launched a “one warm meal per day” program for the funding of the serving of such meals for unemployed Roma in Eastern Europe.
 
 
 
 

Last edited 1 year ago by Michael Detreköy
Jan
Jan
June 7, 2020 6:02 pm

Aha. Thanks for the effort to answer.

tappanch
tappanch
June 7, 2020 12:09 pm

This is what happened to cancer patients sent home from the hospital by the inhuman Orban government in April. Death, within a week.
 
Watch the embedded video:
 
https://444.hu/2020/06/07/mentotiszt-tiz-kirakott-betegbol-kilenc-meghalt

Michael Detreköy
Michael Detreköy
June 7, 2020 12:49 pm
Reply to  tappanch

That’s awful!
At the same time, populist think-tanks, in countries which successfully “flattened the curve” and raised hospital capacity by delaying the treatment of terminally diagnosed patients and reducing the number of examinations of suspected cancers, have launched a “One on One”-campaign against their governments: One Corona-patient’s saved life at the expense of one cancer patient’s life.
Words come awfully cheap these days!
 

Last edited 1 year ago by Michael Detreköy
araf
araf
June 7, 2020 2:45 pm

Try a non-leftist reference for a change. In other words, not NYT, WaPo, CNN, CNBC, et al. “The U.S.” is not burning; there have been riots in a few large cities, but many more peaceful protests, and neither of the above in most smaller communities and rural areas. It’s always a mistake to assume that the major “news” (actually, political propaganda) organizations reflect the state of this large and very diverse country.