As always, Hungarian Spectrum welcomes democratic voices from and about Hungary. Today we publish an article by Ákos Hadházy, an independent member of the Hungarian Parliament. Hadházy was originally a Fidesz member of the city council in Szekszárd but left the party after he discovered a huge local corruption scandal in 2013. After that, he became vice-chair of the party LMP. After the national election in 2018, because of his disapproval of LMP’s policies, he left the party, which – according to quite a number of observers – was overtaken by persons close to Fidesz. Ever since he entered national politics, Hadházy and his colleagues have been doing a remarkable job of unearthing the systemic corruption in the country.
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It is often argued that EU funding to the Hungarian government should not be suspended because this would punish not only the government but also the Hungarian people. This is like arguing that we should not put criminals into jail because this would punish their families, too.
However, we do not intend to dwell here on the legal aspects of suspending EU funding to Hungary (others have already done that, for example, here and here). We will examine whether, in the present circumstances, suspending or continuing EU funding is the bigger punishment of the Hungarian people.
The purpose of EU funding is to contribute to achieving the economic, social and environmental goals of Hungary set forth in various EU and national documents. However, there is no evidence that the vast amount of EU money inundating Hungary during the previous (2007-2013) or the current (2014-2020) 7-year EU budget period improved the general situation of the country in any of these fields. On the contrary, as Professor of the Budapest Corvinus University (university of economics) Dániel Deák stated, “All surveys show that the use of the [EU] cohesion and structural funds have been a complete failure.”
Although the economy in general has prospered during recent years, there are serious doubts whether this tendency will continue in the future. Many of the investments that have been implemented during the last decade (like the building of many new stadiums) have only a short-term effect on economic growth. Moreover, having completed these investments, their proper operation and maintenance is often cast into doubt. Even the President of the State Audit Office, László Domonkos (a former Fidesz member of the Parliament), admitted this, talking about local municipalities: “When they implement an investment, they do not consider how much it will cost to maintain and operate it during the next 10 to 20 years. Regarding the whole period, it might be that the EU funds cause more harm than good.”
Some of the biggest Hungarian companies (which got especially big during the government of Viktor Orbán) almost completely rely on public money (EU money to a large extent). These companies are uncompetitive in the international market as was demonstrated in the excellent study by István János Tóth, Director of the Corruption Research Institute Budapest. The study would deserve a separate blog post, here we only summarize two of his conclusions. First, almost all of the (huge) profits of these companies are taken out by their owners as dividends while companies operating under real market conditions reinvest most of their profits into further developing their business. Second, these companies operate only in Hungary while it is generally characteristic of big companies that they strive to get hold of foreign markets, too.
A large part of EU money is given directly to individual companies. Generally, this occurs according to a scheme in which companies submit applications to gain public funds and public officials decide which companies will obtain grants from these funds, and how much. Even if there were no corruption involved at all, this system of allocating EU and other public money would in itself cause enormous chaos throughout the economy. Namely, it seriously distorts the market and makes the prospects of any business unpredictable.
There is a consensus among Hungarian economists that the main obstacle to the development of the economy is the lack of capital. However, as the World Bank study Where is the Wealth of Nations? concluded, the preponderant form of capital in all countries of the world is intangible capital (in the developed countries it constitutes more than 80%). Intangible capital consists of human capital (first of all the quality of the labor force, which, in turn, depends mostly on the quality of education) and the quality of formal and informal institutions (trust among people and in the public institutions, the efficiency of the government, the quality of the judicial system, the anti-corruption framework, etc.). In fact, it is precisely that intangible capital that has been systematically destroyed since EU money has started to flow to Hungary.
The main reason for such a turn of events was the fact that free money irresistibly attracts all those looking to get rich (or much richer) in a short time by illegal or semi-legal means. This has been demonstrated, among others, in a study by the Sociological Institute of the Hungarian Academy of Sciences, which was introduced by its former director, Imre Kovách, with the following words: “The main reason the business elite started to be involved in politics, and to side with political parties and persons, is the fact that Hungary joined the EU, from where thousands of billions of Forints started to flow to us. It was already worth influencing the allocation of this money, and it became possible to get substantial financial resources as winners of applications for grants.” The result of this process can be characterized concisely with the words (video, not accessible after the closure of Népszabadság) of Prof. Dr. József Ángyán (video in English), a former State Secretary in Viktor Orbán’s government: “Out of the about 70 Members of the Government (Ministers, State Secretaries) 8 or 10 were appointed by the Prime Minister, all others were in fact appointed by organised crime groups.” It is no wonder that during the last 10 years, the Hungarian government has transformed the whole legislative and institutional system in a way that makes it much easier for certain groups close to the government to steal and misuse EU money. All this explains also why Viktor Orbán obstinately refuses any relation with the European Public Prosecutor’s Office (EPPO) in spite of the facts that we succeeded in collecting (practically without money, just with the help of volunteers) 680,000 signatures demanding that the Hungarian government join the EPPO and that, according to opinion polls, the overwhelming majority of Hungarians would support such a move.
Ákos Hadházy with the 680,000 signatures he collected demanding that Hungary join the EPPO / The Associated Press
Many other elements of the intangible capital has been ruined, too. It has already been demonstrated by several studies (for example, this IMF study) that wide-scale corruption on the government level adversely affects public services like education and health care. As more and more money has been stolen and misused, less and less money has remained for public goods. This situation is reflected, among others, in the facts that the performance of Hungarian students in the OECD’s PISA (Programme for International Student Assessment) substantially deteriorated between 2009 and 2018 and that the number of students admitted to higher education institutions has decreased by 25 percent between 2010 and 2020. As far as health care is concerned, among all EU countries, Hungary has the highest number of deaths per 100,000 inhabitants among those under 75 in terms of preventable deaths.
The present system of EU funding has contributed to the untimely death of many thousands of Hungarians not only because of the crumbling health care system. There has been a huge setback in environmental protection, too. For example, Hungary (along with Bulgaria and Romania) has by far the highest per capita death rate due to air pollution: it causes about 13,000 premature deaths each year. This is due partly to the dismantling of the environmental institutional system (which, if left untouched, might have posed serious obstacles to certain investments riddled with corruption). It is also due to the very low level of investments into improving the energy efficiency of buildings, which is also the source of another huge health problem: according to Eurostat data, 26 percent of Hungarians live in a dwelling not comfortably cool during summer and 20 percent live in a dwelling not comfortably warm during winter time. In many cases, this is a question of life and death: for example, in recent years during heat waves in Budapest the number of deaths increased by 15 to 30 percent. The use of public money for huge, unnecessary investments drains away not only money but also the labor force from energy efficiency investments in residential buildings: for ordinary citizens today it is practically impossible to find a reliable specialist in this field, and even if they find one, the price offered is beyond their means more often than not.
“If our country spends EU money following the present trends and framework, this might cause the biggest tragedy of Hungary,” said Zsombor Essősy, CEO of MAPI Hungarian Development Agency Corp., “The Expert of EU and Domestic Funds” (as it is described on MAPI’s website). I could not agree with him more.
“We will examine whether, in the present circumstances, suspending or continuing EU funding is the bigger punishment of the Hungarian people.”
Interesting question but one besides the point. EU funding can never be suspended. It is not given as a generosity act, it is meant as a balancing act for a “serious anomaly” (Jozsef Papp) : i.e., Hungary accepting that a very large ( +50% ) of its economy to be owned by the western capital and this capital to operate as a tax-evading capital (billions of euro each year, it is really +3 billion, not 0.7-1.5b) …see :
“This translates to an annual EUR 0.7-1.5 billion computed with the Hungarian dividend tax rate paid to the countries exporting the capital and not in Hungary. It is easy to play the donor from this amount and from the tax on the added value produced in our country!
Taxes missing from the Hungarian budget and subsidies, tax breaks offered to entice multinational companies to settle here must be paid by somebody, which in this case again are the Hungarian small and medium sized companies and the citizens who pay for it. As a result, we have the highest VAT rate.”
https://hungarianspectrum.org/2020/08/02/jozsef-papp-the-dutch-with-no-hatred-toward-hungarians/
Since you repeat the stupidity that the EU owes Hungary money because of foreign investments in Hungary I repeat my comment dealing with taxes and economy from the Papp contribution on HS you quoted: Nothing more true that Rutte is way better for Hungary and Hungarians than the regime. Every single action to limit the corruption is very welcome. But seen this it would be a very bad idea for the EU just to pay every contribution that is made to Hungary into the general budget. Sure, EU bureaucracy would be limited a bit (a bureaucracy that is not that big as described by the enemies of the EU by the way), but on the other side: who ever said that Orbàn is spending our budget well? Further there are some other errors. The high VAT rate is not result of the problem, but causing the structural problems of our economy. At least legal consumption is limited by artificial high prices. No wonder that together with low wages a lot of products made in Hungary is consumed abroad! Anyway, we can’t even buy as many cars as made in Hungary. And nothing wrong with that. We need to export, since… Read more »
@Istvan ..At least that fact that nothing happens, that the EU never reacts economically against Hungary or Poland, should get you thinking (if you can get that process going).
“EU funding” is an economic arrangement not charity, and an indispensable one without which the EU would unravel quickly. The Eastern-EU countries would react (and quite nationalistically from a political perspective) to stop their losses – (they are estimated at 5-6 billion euro each year for Romania, 9-12b for Poland, likely 4-5b for Hungary not 1.5b).
What keeps the EU together are not the “EU values” (whatever those may be, flooding the continent with Arabs and Africans and pushing the gay-agenda, I guess) but the web-network of freely operating transnational corporations. If that goes everything goes. …
An yes, the so much “Hungarian loving” Dutch-corporations are the greatest tax-evaders, at least in Romania ( https://www.zf.ro/companii/firmele-din-paradisuri-fiscale-genereaza-20-din-cifra-de-afaceri-a-companiilor-din-romania-15834378) and I guess the same in HU, it is their style.
Orban (of course) knows the reality, that Rutte talks hypocritical nonsense, so he just waits for him to end the rhetorical bullshit and then get to the real issues behind the talk, i.e. business and the necessary balancing via the “EU funding”.
“the gay-agenda”
So the old ovidiot is back – no comment necessary.
And now I’m waiting (not …) for a remark by the creature on Greta …
With his ideology of hate he will never understand what human rights are, so he makes fun of everything he doesn’t understands.
Makes fun?
No he*s (if he exists as a person at all …) is a pervert, afraid of everything foreign to him which he doesn’t understand, whether it’s LGBT people or Greta or liberal democracy or …
Not too much OT:
Just read in the FAZ (sorry, behind a paywall, but if you’re lucky …) that even around 30% of Germans believe in “constipation theories” – that secret powers rule the world!
Candidates for this are Banks, Rich people, Jews of course, Illuminati, Freemasons, Mafia, Extraterrestrials, the secret services (CIA, KGB) and so on …
https://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/inland/ein-drittel-der-deutschen-haengt-verschwoerungstheorien-an
Well, with the statement about the EU values he/she/it/they tried to make some fun or at least what he/she/it/they think to be funny (reading Art 2 of the Lisbon treaty as source can’t be expected by him/her/it/them).
And what you write about Germans believing in the world being ruled by “Banks, Rich people, Jews of course, Illuminati, Freemasons, Mafia, Extraterrestrials, the secret services (CIA, KGB) and so on” is not new at all, worked hundreds of years ago as well. Who ruled was some monarch or course, but who made the bad weather, the plague…? Easy answers and blaming others are proven tools since ever. Time to burn some witches!
If the EU would stop funding the corrupt and criminal thieves of the victor, who are masquerading as the Government of Hungary (aka Fidesztan) it could spur some of the people to stop voting for the Fidesz and they would loose the supermajority? Hungary would be paralyzed for a long time, since the viktor and his gang made nearly everything, businesses and land, their private property. It appears that the EU prefers to support the viktor and his thieves, because Germany, France and other foreign countries get generous tax benefits, free infrastructure construction for their plants and factories, and cheap or free labor, since the contributions from the viktor can amount to years of the workmen’s wages. My opinion is, that the viktor can only remain in power as long as the main leaders of the EU support him, namely Germany and France. The viktor also enjoys the support of Putin, and his large group of spies and the embedded controllers still have a lot of influence in Hungary. It is a kind of Hungarian Status Quo between the EU and Russia. One can hope, since hope dies last. It will be a long wait for a change and dubious… Read more »
Such innocence — so sweetly touching — and so beside the point.
Investments in Hungary by firms based in western Europe are safe and profitable. Political contributions by those firms have kept Merkel in office and back Macron. The firms are secure in their arrangements with Orbán Viktor. Why would they want the EU to rock the boat ?
Movements of national liberation that involve re-distribution of wealth, in particular those that threaten expropriation of foreign investments, used to attract gunboats (the British opium concession in Imperial China), later CIA agents buying generals (copper and fisheries in Chile, oil in Iran). We’re more advanced now, at least inside Europe; no need to deploy troops within the EU. We have Brussels as a safety valve, a stage on which Sargentinis and Hadházys strut up and down proclaiming outrage whilst business goes on.
Such cynicism — so out of touch — and so pointless to strut…
Get back to me in a year with a list of what the EU has done to alter matters. Ten years so far of view-with-concern . . . In the meantime, good luck as you put your hopes in denunciations, in fulminations, in thoughts-‘n’-prayers-for-the-noble-but-oppressed-Hungarian-nation. My cynicism and I will be here in our lawn chairs with a pitcher of martinis, sippin’ an’ watchin’, chattin’ an’ scratchin’. We are eager to see how your idealism fares. Unlike idealism, cynicism is ALWAYS in touch.
I would not call Alex’s post cynical in the least, it is pragmatic if anything and I agree with it. We all know that multinational and EU corporations have numerous lobbyists in Brussels and in every capital of every EU nation. It is reality.
Hungary and numerous other former Communist nations provide lower cost labor, and in many cases lower standards for health and safety of the work force than in the advanced western nations. There is no surprise in that. Many of the former Communist countries have a relationship with the power house economies of the EU similar to the US/Mexico relationship.
Is it possible to change those dynamics, yes I think so, but in my opinion it might well require a profound economic crisis that demands some fundamental restructuring of western capitalism all together that I personally do not see happening in the near future, in the long run we are all dead as John Maynard Keynes said a long time ago during the Great Depression.
“Hungary and numerous other former Communist nations provide lower cost labor, and in many cases lower standards for health and safety of the work force than in the advanced western nations.”
Need to disappoint you! About the wages you are correct, but not about health and safety at working place, these are depending on EU law.
“provide lower cost labor”
Istvan, you are totally right – but what to do there?
I remember textile factories in Hungary in the last millennium – they’ve all been closed, the production was moved to Thailand or …
You can’t force the industry to produce where wages are “too high” unless you have special prices.
Where I live in Germany there was a strong textile industry until the 70s – and the production moved outside Germany.
There’s only one company which still produces t-shirts etc there, but they have a special way of operating and selling. Look up Trigema and its owner – quite an interesting story.
Alex, it is so easy to blame the EU! Yes, if the Lisbon treaty would know better rules to stop regimes to act against the community as Orbán does, the EU would have been able to take faster and better actions. To blame Macron is ridiculous. He is one of the best friends Hungarians have within the EU. At the very end Merkel’s CDU enabled in the EP the Art 7 procedure against Orbán, not having voted in large numbers in favour there wouldn’t have been a 2/3 in the EP – and by this Merkel is standing within her own CDU on the relatively left side. Further you don’t see the position of the international investors correctly. At that moment Hungary won’t be attractive any more by whatever reason they will leave. Cheap labour can be found beyond Hungarian borders. Tax breaks are no Hungarian speciality. German Audi, in those days American owned Opel and Japanese Suzuki came long before Orbán destroyed our democracy, even before Merkel took office. German Mercedes came late, but agreements were made with the MSZP government. Only German BMW decided for Hungary when Orbán has already made a lot of his destruction work. And… Read more »
“it is so easy to blame the EU!”
Exactly, as it’s not the EU which is wrongly handling the EU funds going to Hungary, but Hungary, as a whole, itself. With Hungary, as a whole itself, I mean:
–those in power who do the [for the real development in Hungary] wrong handling
–all others who do not object to those handling it wrong
These are the main problems, the next problem is that the EU does not have an overall system/method with which it can reduce or even fully block EU funds, based on the bad or completely wrong handling of EU funds, by individual member states.
For this I have two explanations [and their combination of course]:
–the EU is based upon positive beliefs [so noble but naive]
–other member states don’t want to interfere too much in other states, as they wouldn’t accept others to interfere in their owns.
In the current case of Hungary and its misappropriation of EU funds I see only one real way out:
A big majority of the people in Hungary demand the EU to stop the current system of EU funds going to Hungary. With that demand the people should realize that this in the short run will harm their current society and most of them themselves individually. But in this way they will be able to get away from under OV’s yoke and in the long run [after installation of a better EU funding system] it will bring them the developments they longed for and expected when joining the EU in 2004.
Well Ferenc I agree with your point about a radical change in the way cohesion funds are distributed by the EU and that “With that demand the people should realize that this in the short run will harm their current society and most of them themselves individually.” It is unclear how short term the negative impact would be on former Communist nations or restructuring the cohesion funds, it is also possible that western corporations will move more production to Asia, India, possibly even parts of Africa. Those are unknown factors, capitalism does indeed have a race to the bottom aspect to it when it comes to cost factors.
I also believe Germany supports OV because of the many German companies operating in HU. But I cannot help wondering how having a democratic regime instead of the current corrupt one would hurt these companies though.
Suppose the funding was drastically reduced. It would very probably change the mood of many voters, and prompt a change of government. Probably, a part of the maladministered funds could be retrieved – but generally speaking, the society would be left with with what?
Are the cultural and social resources, necessary for turning to healthier and more responsible conduct present and correct?
Michael, in any case at the end of the regime Hungary will be a devastated country. A country that needs to be rebuilt with main concerns Hadházy also mentioned. The sooner we will get the opportunity the better.
I agree.
But at the same time it should be clear enough from long experience, that another turnover or change of system will only change the surface. It’s the deeper layers of the society that really need the rebuild most, in order to remove the “Strong-Man Leadership” cultural DNA and qualify the general population with the means to carry out a thorough, democratic reorganization.
Without such a structural overhaul, the popular basis for a lasting and functional democracy is just another high idea.
True, rebuilding Hungary can’t be done limited to economy, health care and education. More or less collective mental disorders produced by both Orbán and earlier totalitarian systems must be cured.
This post is an important contribution to the discussion in and outside of
Hungary regarding how to end the Fidesz regime. The analysis regarding the systemic distortion of Hungary’s economy, which- sadly- is worsened by EU funds is precisely stated. Akos Hadhazy deserves our thanks. The campaign to join the EPPO was/is a good tool among many to convince Hungarians to end this regime.Only Hungarians can end the mafia state. I hope that others-if they disagree- can at least suggest alternatives rather than just criticism of one brave Hungarian opposition leader.
@Misi bacsi, 11:34 pm
Please set the ball rolling by giving us your list of ways to “end the mafia state”. We await your enlightenment. Thanks.
Very important points being made here but reading this and the comments especially I come to the conclusion:The old Hungarian weakness again … It’s always someone else’s fault! If Hungarians see these problems then why don’t they act on them? Why did they accept this kind of mafia operation? Are they happy with Tiborcz, Mészáros and all the others? It’s not that the EU forced Hungary to join. OK, a few Hungarians are leaving the country for greener pastures but the others … No real opposition, not even a real Green party – LMP was and still is a joke, maybe even conceived against a real Green movement. PS: Just compare Hungary’s situation with the countries not (yet …) in the EU … A bit OT: Yesterday we walked through the village and saw again heaps of garbage, empty beer cans and pálinka bottles on the streets and then even old washing machines and piles of other furniture. And don’t even think about the ruins of cars rotting away in the gardens. Don’t Hungarians care about their environment? OK, if you have no money for insulating your house – is that a reason for throwing your garbage into the garden?… Read more »
There are indeed plenty of symptomatic behavioral public matters to adress and Hadházy’s conclusion seems very shallow and inverted, considering that, hopefully he must be aware of the agreement between HU and the EU. Probably not where a realistic cause and effect analysis could indicate anything but temporary solutions.
During the past 10 years I (and we all…) have said repeatedly, although not in so detailed form the same. And let me point out that this is just the tip of the corruption-iceberg pandemic that flourishes in Orbanistan. I am sure that if these facts were known to the taxpaying citizens of Denmark, Holland and the other western EU member states, the public pressure would be put on the EU leaders to stop the subsidies for all ex-Soviet era countries that flaunt disregarding the ‘Rule of Law’. Unfortunately not only the EU don’t call the attention to these anomalies, but serves as a fig-leaf to cover up this unacceptable and disgusting behaviour of Orban et al. Of course we know about the comfortable arrangements the German and other western companies enjoy in Hungary with their super-low taxes whilst the Hungarian citizens coughing up a 27% VAT with everything they purchase. Hungary has lost most of its educated people, and those that remained are taken hostage with wide range of laws, decrees and practices that the regime forced on them. Amongst those that oppose this autocracy and still can claim independent existence from the regime’s actions far… Read more »
Dynamite essay from Ákos Hadházy. I’m so glad and grateful he decided to publish it here. It puts a few things into perspective that I hadn’t considered before, like maybe Hungary would be better off without EU funds at all.
One aspect he omitted was the sociological aspect of corruption. Mr. Hadházy is obviously repelled by corruption but many Hungarians just take it for granted.
In fact, I’ve even heard that in private, ordinary people will rebuke politicians who appear not have enriched themselves along the lines of, “What’s the matter with you? Why haven’t you taken some out for yourself?” As if corruption is almost an expectation from the general populace. It’s this attitude among Hungarians we need to change as much as anything to do with funding and the EU.
I think the focus on EU is misunderstood and too technical.
The primary causes of the current problems should first be extracted from under the national rug.
„Hadházy was originally a Fidesz member of the city council in Szekszárd but left the party after he discovered a huge local corruption scandal in 2013. After that, he became vice-chair of the party LMP. After the national election in 2018, because of his disapproval of LMP’s policies“ Ok I’m a foreigner, actually I didn’t have much to do with politics. Today I am interested in politics because the difference in the quality of life through financial opportunities from foreign pensioners or better-off Hungarians to local workers is too big. Not that foreigners generally throw their money around but you need about 1000€ to live a modest life in the country. For most people this is only possible with a second or third job. One of the things that makes you jealous and that makes you feel excluded is not only limited to foreigners – it is also common among Hungarians and I can understand it. Life can be very hard if you don’t have enough money. As I said before 2010 it was already clear to me that Orban with its pathological self-love is deadly for a country, for a society. The same was true for Schiffffer’s LMP, a… Read more »
Hadházy is the best asset of the opposition parties at the moment, regardless of where he started from. If you look at the response to the so-called “national consultation” he (and Szél Bernadett) organized the collection of blank questionnaires from people who could see through the propaganda, it was him that organized the beeping of horns at the Chain Bridge to protest corruption (and the sending home of thousands of patients from hospitals to have empty beds for corona cases), so that Orbán could hear the protests in his palace, and him that organized the petition for the European prosecutor to be accepted in Hungary. Ignore his views if you want, but in my opinion he’s the most active and effective opposition politician around…
not to mention his constant exposing of corruption cases – just follow him on facebook to see
„Hadházy is the best asset of the opposition parties at the moment, …“
Thanks Pantanifan but this is frightening. Hadházy theory has been circulating all over the net for a few years. One can also legitimately claim that the EPP especially the CDU and CSU supports Orban. If we assume that the EU will stop the money – what will happen then? Will the wolves tear themselves to pieces? Or will Orban first try to get some money elsewhere to buy some time. So he can rebuild his system so it works with less money. A kind of kingdom … with more national debt he could “rule” for a few more years. Or if the wolves have torn themselves to pieces will reasonable people in the system move up, where will they come from? It’s all very unlikely … even if Orban has a heart attack, the system will still work. If there are only people like Hadházy, you can forget about Hungary. Trust is a great asset, it is based on an advance on what was done in the past. Here we say trust – look – who.
Well I guess our views of him are quite different, but I don’t think he’s the type to be a leader or prime minister anyway, more of an activist campaigner against the current regime, hopefully a catalyst for change
Well, you have to start somewhere and there are also some activists who get involved. My nature is more the logic than the hope.
Hadházy is a veterinarian from a small town. Chances are very good that he is a conservative, he fits very well into the conservative clientele – not just in Hungary. So when he decided to join a party – way before Orbán turned to rightwing extremism – becoming member of FIDESZ was not too much surprising.
I know some people with FIDESZ affiliation very hard pressing both hands onto their eyes not to see what the regime does. Can’t be since it mustn’t be. Distraction follows as usual. Hadházy both understood when the tobacco licences were given to friends and family of the local mafia that he was member of a criminal organisation and had the character to act against FIDESZ. And yes: Patanifan is right, Hadházy is one of the best politicians we have these days. I would go even a step further, he is in my eyes capable for a top job.
Oh I don’t want to say that you can’t learn anything in life. I wish my neighbors your open-mindedness. But I also have my own framework of thoughts. The problem is when he is the best.
here’s the latest facebook post from Hadházy (my translation): “Someone has quietly been sharing some shocking videos. This is one (more) way in which the government might have cheated with the results of the “National Consultation”. A user called Nerbot has documented in 15 videos with 25 hours of recordings in total how a robot program fills out the online questionnaires with false names and random answers. One new “consulting” fake vote arrived approx. every 10 seconds, so the government received approx. 10,000 false “replies”. The problem is probably much bigger. We don’t know who the user called Nerbot ncould be: maybe a programmer working on a government commission, who has produced fake votes, but whose conscience was awakened and led him/her to document and publicize the fraud. Maybe the person uploading the video is an opposition-backing hacker, who just wanted to demonstrate how vulnerable the system is and how it can be circumvented. Whoever he/she is: they have provided evidence of how easy it is for the government to commit fraud. Whatever they say, the whole thing lacks credibility and is just about brainwashing – as the video shows. Of course we already knew that the whole thing is… Read more »
It is tragic that corruption is so serious under FIDESZ/Orban. At least Hadhazy is free to express his profound dissatisfaction with this sad situation. Apparently poisoning opposition politicians has not become a practice in Hungary. Let us hope that it never will.
OT, but funny in a way:
Did you read/hear about the crazy Trump boat party on Lake Travis (near Austin, Texas)?
https://cbsaustin.com/news/local/multiple-boats-in-distress-sinking-at-trump-boat-parade-on-lake-travis
Some of those boats got in distress, some even sank – though no deaths reported yet.
Now imagine this on the Balaton:
All the Fidesz honchos having a big party on their boats as they often do, lots of drinks, a bit of coke and wild wild women …
This reminds me of a story from a few years ago:
Some rich loonies decided to run their SUVs (Range Rover if I remember correctly) on the frozen Balaton – until they came to a point where the ice was not thick enough for this kind of game and those expensive cars fell in.
“on the frozen Balaton – until they came to a point where the ice was not thick enough”
Don’t remember having heard this one! Would love to see this!
When did this happen? Are there any pictures?
Ferenc, it happened in 2012 – it wasn’t rovers but two even more expensive Hummers!
https://gtspirit.com/2012/02/07/two-hummer-h2s-fall-through-ice-in-hungary/
If you google “hummer balaton ice accident” you also find pictures.
Index had it too:
https://index.hu/bulvar/2012/02/07/a_jeges_balatonba_szakadt_ket_terepjaro/
Enjoy!
I agree with the substance of what Handhazy says but let’s not some things. The fundamental issue here is that (admitting that the elections are rigged in Hungary anyway in so many ways) voters simply do not care about policy issues. This reality goes against the foundations of the liberal political paradigm which posits that people are rational, utility-maximizing actors who weigh policy proposals and vote for the party that offers the best value for the voters. The reality instead is that most voters absolutely don’t care if education is in decline — because they don’t like education at all, they always hated school, teachers, learning. Similarly, most voters don’t care about health care because anyway doesn’t want to think about health problems and the finitude of human life (rather they repress that anxiety by thinking that they will forever despite smoking, drinking, devouring hamburgers etc.). And so on. Policy matters only to educated, liberal voters who are in the minority and always will be. The – rigged – election can be won by the votes of simple people who value (who can only understand, comprehend, relate to) things like charisma, power, pride, fighting for us, protection from terrifying imaginary)… Read more »
„The reality instead is that most voters absolutely don’t care if education is in decline — because they don’t like education at all, they always hated school, teachers, learning.“
… really now, have you read a study or are you sitting in front of the crystal ball? I can’t imagine that adults with children hate school. Ok Orban hates the school and the teachers because he is an Id__t but hopefully most parents want their child to learn something or …
The saddest thing is that in reality most ordinary people don’t want their children to study because then they will be “smarter” (more educated, more knowledgable etc.) than the parents. That’s a power thing. The young must respect the old under all circumstances, but if the young has a degree (or can say, “hey dad you had Fs all the time when you were a kid but I have As”) and the old man doesn’t get respected then this rule cannot apply. Parents want to retain a kind of power over the children which obviously they can’t if the the child will be a “smartass” with a degree potentially from a subject which the working class parents can’t understand. It is absolutely not true that all parents want their kids to have good grades, be scholarly, earn degrees. Earning a doctor’s or lawyer’s degree is a bit different because even the most ordinary parents know that such degrees raise one’s status. But do they want their kids to get a BA in German philology or an MA sociology or PhD in history? No, most of them don’t. They want their kids to be the same as them: like fishing, like… Read more »
Nice story Marty, but we are here on a public place with many readers who are wondering if this is documented or seen or meant. I know of problems (inexplicable until the family argument about it) because the grandma wants her grandson to say “kiss the hand” (traditional to older people) and the parents are much more modern. But that is not what you said. If it is your observation, you should write it along with it.
I can’t bring any regression analysis to prove it, that’s for sure. I have two bases to rely on. One is Joan C. Williams’ extremely important book: “White Working Class: overcoming class cluelessness”. (I read a ton of other articles in mainstream media about this phenomenon, which I cannot cite because I’m not a scholar.) And my experience with working class people. They want to stay the same culturally only want more money, bigger house, better car, better fishing rod etc. etc. Think about it: why would low status people, your bad student classmates, want to contemplate education policy propose by politicians? They are happy to have survived school, they are not proud of their achievements (they probably hated school), and they don’t want to think about school and studying anymore. The problem is that since you probably socialize with fellow middle-class/educated with unversity degree/intellectual people you are not exposed to working class people with little or no education (vocational school instead of gymnasium, and no university degree of any kind). I have many in my extended family and uncannily they behave and think exactly like wwc people of Trumpland. (hell, one non-English speaker physical worker relative by marriage of… Read more »
I didn’t quite get it, but I will … no I won’t think about it because that’s not an adequate answer, Marty.
Marty’s not off base, and it’s not just Hungary in which fear and jealousy militate against exploration of the new and different. “You forget your place.” “Don’t get above yourself.” “Who’s going to take over the shop / the farm, then ?” The story of the Ugly Duckling, or the Japanese equivalent — tombi ga taka wo unda, a kite has hatched out a falcon. The USA Black metaphor of crabs in a basket, pulling back and down those which manage to climb the sides. Watch the film BILLY ELLIOT. In Britain — Eton ? “Not for the likes of us”. In the USA — Harvard ? “Isn’t State good enough for you ?” The children go away, they change, when they come back we can’t talk to them, they judge us . . . without starvation (second son, no farm for you ) or death (conscription, religious persecution) at one’s back, how many Europeans, how many Hungarians would have emigrated to the USA and Canada 130, 120 years ago ?
Alex, it’s one thing to say that parents don’t want their children to become smarter than themselves. I can’t imagine that Hungary has already sunk so far. Yes, in Africa or India there may be areas of child labor where parents need to be convinced that their children only have a chance to get out of misery with an education.
The other is that school education is or can be a prison of thought that arises from our culture and our society. But I have not met any parents who have expressed doubts about education in general. However, there are voices about the quality of education in Hungary. Which in turn refutes Marty’s statement.
Marty, if this were true then Hungary and its average joes would really be lost!
In all countries that I’ve been to parents were proud when their children went to university – 60 years ago in Germany my school friends who were children of poor people made it with the support of their families. And it was a hard fight because our school principal was a real catholic fascist who wanted only the upper class children to go to university …
I hated him and some of the older teachers so much that only after 40 years (when I knew they were all dead) did I participate in a class reunion – though I had been the Primus, they couldn’t hurt me, but my friends.
So again it seems that Hungary is at least 50 years behind – and it will be a totally insignificant sh*thole country soon if this goes on.
Just look at the millions of academics that India and China produce – who cares for the stupid Eastern Europeans?
Suppose conditions in Hungary at some point change to the extent that the general public actually get a reason to trust that an awareness of the national and local politics actually gives access to inluence on priorities of economy and everything else related to national standards?
Could such an “unchristian” scenario in any way be acknowledged by the stone-engraved antique-conservative thinking of HS’ Cato “Marty” Censurius??
Don, he has a crystal ball. Marty is telling stupidities again, a ridiculous story he tells, Marty didn’t understand that those of us living in the countryside already left the caves. Yes, there are a very few believing that education is useless, these are the families that live since generations from social benefits and a few months a year közmunka. All the rest, where people have regular jobs, especially the hard working people, want a better, an easier life for their children. These parents know very well how important education is. Of course parents with high education don’t want but expect that their children get a at least even high education.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/06/21/white-working-class-children-lack-aspiration-drive-migrant-communities/
Paywall, so I need to reduce it to the hadline, which tells that migrant children have more aspirations than white British children from working class families. This comparation is hard to make in Hungary and socially you can’t compare the UK and Hungary either.
István other newspaper same topic readable without paywall.
It is about another topic, according to my opinion. And yes it is not comparable because a comparison is made with migrants.
https://www.bbc.com/news/education-44568019
Mr. Hadhazy’s essay is one of the finest I’ve ever read on the economic antics and resulting deterioration of a member country in the EU. So clear, thoughtful and penetrating. Thank you. It goes in a special folder titled ‘Insightful’. Corruption in the state is such a grievous error within the public sphere and it is not a mistake since those who oversee it and those who do it continue to only see the gold under their bulging eyes. At this point they’ll never stop it. Correcting it doesn’t fit in with the economic imagination as that would no doubt help to infuse into society a worthwhile quest for ‘good’ profit for all. At least the population would have a few more forints in their pockets and could save for some better prosperity up ahead. But the economics up top goes against all that. Magyarorszag unfortunately has been made a nation of continuing ‘economizers’ because of corruption. And it’s the people who have been digging sometimes desperately through their piggy banks for the longest time. Hard to fathom how a country can veer away from ‘honest‘ ethical economical life and continue to escape a form of self-destruction with self-interest the… Read more »
Re: “When they implement an investment, they do not consider how much it will cost to maintain and operate it during the next 10 to 20 years. Regarding the whole period, it might be that the EU funds cause more harm than good.”
Linking this statement with the fact of ‘intangible capital’ coursing through the nation it would be interesting to see the expected economical LOSS of the country’s growth through human capital as a result of poor management of the structure and teaching of the entire education system.
Money spent on concrete that presents an upkeep challenge appears to be a more important policy than the educational welfare and attainments of the population which must be more important to the future of the country. Such thinking is astounding in the machinations of a few apparently beheaded economists.
Agree with you 100% regarding both of above comments. Hungary’s main hope -for the long run- is to nurture top quality education. Finland is a great example for Hungary.
Ancient grudges and prejudices aside, isn’t this really a political question? Would people blame the EU if there were fewer new day nurseries or rebuilt roads around the country or would they blame the government? Would Orban and his friends shrug off the hit if the money pumps were turned off? For what it’s worth,I guess that Orban would back down from what seems a lose/lose result. But that’s just my opinion.