I am covering three topics today, all follow-ups to earlier unfinished threads. The first continues the case of László Rovó, the government-appointed rector of the University of Szeged. Rovó, after returning from a ski trip in Southern Tyrol, didn’t quarantine himself as he was supposed to but instead showed up in the operating room. A couple of days later, he was diagnosed with COVID-19. Once the case became known, MOK, the Hungarian Medical Association, began an investigation of the case, which started with the Szeged chapter of MOK and concluded in Győr because of conflict of interest issues. A few months later, the original investigator of the case, Professor Szatmár Horváth, a professor at the university, was fired, allegedly for incompetence and unworthy behavior.
It seems that this disgraceful affair did have some adverse consequences, unfortunately not for Rector Rovó but for the University of Szeged’s medical school. For several years, the medical school at the University of Nebraska had a fruitful cooperation with the Szeged medical establishment. The contact person between the two universities was Károly Mirnics, a Hungarian-American professor of psychiatry, biochemistry, molecular biology, and pharmacology, who over the years welcomed several young Hungarian researchers in his laboratory. He also taught at the University of Szeged as a guest lecturer.
Upon hearing the story, he wrote a letter of resignation to the department head of the University of Szeged’s psychiatric clinic. Here are the main points of his letter. “(1) A powerful academic leader breaks the national rules for his pleasure, lies about it, gets COVID-19 and endangers patients by operating on them while potentially COVID-19 positive; (2) an ethics committee chair, who should investigate his alleged transgressions, is abruptly fired by the powerful leader who allegedly broke the rules.” Under the circumstances, “with a heavy heart,” the professor from Nebraska announced the discontinuation of all ties to the University of Szeged.
The second topic about which I would like to say a few words is the latest public opinion polling on the standing of Hungarian political parties. Yesterday, we were discussing the loss of popular support of the Slovak and Czech governments because of the severity of the “second wave” of the pandemic. Both Igor Matovič and Andrej Babiš were overly confident of their ability to handle the medical emergency and, by now, both politicians have lost the trust of their people. As a result, their parties, OĽaNO and ANO 2011, which in the early spring showed some modest gains, began losing support. At this point, I suggested that a similar development might take place in Hungary, given the chaotic handling of the pandemic by the government and the population’s decreasing trust in the veracity of Viktor Orbán and his regime.
We now have an answer to this question thanks to Závecz Research Institute’s poll, released today. The Hungarian medical situation is very similar to that in the Czech Republic and Slovakia, but since the governments of Babiš and Matovič are coalition governments, as opposed to the rock solid two-thirds parliamentary majority of Fidesz, the Hungarian party, unlike the other two, is not threatened with collapse any time soon.
Fidesz, like OĽaNO and ANO 2011, gained five percentage points between March and August, but since then it has lost four percentage points. Among committed voters, Fidesz still leads with 49% against DK’s 17%, Jobbik and Momentum each at 10%, MSZP at 6%, and Mi Hazánk, LMP, Two-Tailed Dog, and Párbeszéd each at 2%.
After the by-election in Borsod County, I found it significant that the common, less-than-ideal opposition candidate won in Tiszaújváros, the largest town in the district. Even in smaller Szerencs, the hometown of Zsófia Koncz, the two candidates shared the votes in about equal measure. Závecz’s poll confirms the loss of Fidesz support not just in Budapest but also in provincial towns. Fidesz’s loss in these cities is substantial, eight percentage points. On the other hand, villages are still Fidesz strongholds. Fidesz’s loss among university graduates is huge, 16 percentage points, followed by high school graduates with a 6 percentage point decline. The number of Fidesz supporters with a grade eight education has grown by 7 percentage points. Among respondents under the age of 40, Fidesz’s popularity is at an all-time low, only 25%. However, I doubt that the Hungarian football hooligans will march out and engage in a violent demonstration against the government as happened in Bratislava and Prague, because the football-loving prime minister, ignoring the pandemic, hasn’t closed the football stadiums. Just this weekend there will be three NBI games in Budapest. No reason to riot.
And finally, a few days ago we contemplated the possible ramifications of a Biden-Harris victory on U.S.-Hungarian relations. Yesterday, a fascinating report written by Senator Bob Menendez, the ranking member of the committee on foreign relations, appeared, titled “The Cost of Trump’s Foreign Policy: Damage and Consequences for U.S. and Global Security.” Menendez, hoping to be the next chairman of this powerful committee, is a fierce critic of the Orbán regime. The 73-page report has 52 references to Hungary and 36 to Viktor Orbán.
Hungary is described as a threat to NATO and democratic principles, a free press, and democracy. In fact, Menendez devotes a whole subchapter to the country, titled “Hungary: Embraced in the White House.” Most of this subchapter is devoted to Hungary’s “Eastern Opening,” where the senator writes about “the movement of Russian money into Hungary, intelligence sharing, increasing commercial ties and a decision to move the Moscow-based International Investment Bank to Budapest.” A roughly equal amount of space is devoted to Hungarian-Chinese relations and the Chinese-built railroad between Budapest and Belgrade. I must say that it is a very professional summary of U.S. foreign policy under President Trump, with more than 350 lengthy footnotes.
At the end of the pamphlet, Menendez summarizes his recommendations, among which we find: “Autocratic leaders should be put on notice that the United States will hold them accountable for violation of human rights and efforts to repress their citizens” and “Effectively competing against Russia and China should be one of the United States’ central foreign policy goals.” If Menendez has his way, the White House and the Democrat-led committee on foreign relations will give the Orbán regime a very hard time.

It is a great loss for the University of Szeged and its students that cooperation with the University of Nebraska has, apparently, been broken off. In this century, cooperation between universities across borders and across continents has been greatly increased with exchanges of faculty and students (a great benefit to those involved and subsequently to their students) and many international, well-funded research projects made possible by the EU, among other sources.
And why has this happened? Because “a powerful academic leader breaks the national rules for his pleasure, lies about it” and then acts as if he is the appointed Dictator of the University of Szeged. Well, he is isn’t he? Appointed by one crass Dictator to play the same role in academia.
The stupidity, arrogance and greed of this government knows no limits.
“Hate and force cannot be in just a part of the world without having an effect on the rest of it.” Eleanor Roosevelt
Hungary again at the Forefront!
In a post in today’s Guardian, Trump’s own Mike Pompeo is shown triumphantly heralding in the new age of International Control and Suppression of Women:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/22/us-trump-administration-signs-anti-abortion-declaration
“The US has today signed an anti-abortion declaration with a group of about 30 largely illiberal or authoritarian governments, after the failure of an effort to expand the conservative coalition.”
And who are the members of this select club?
“The “core supporters” of the declaration are Brazil, Egypt, Hungary, Indonesia and Uganda, and the 27 other signatories include Belarus (where security forces are currently trying to suppress a women-led protest movement), Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, the United Arab Emirates, Iraq, Sudan, South Sudan, Libya.”
Known by the company they keep: Dictators and Fascists of the World Unite!
Congrats to Hungary and Poland, the only 2 EU Member States to make it on the list.
Co-Sponsors of the October 22 anti-abortion declaration:
US
Hungary
Brazil
Indonesia
Egypt
Uganda
The other 26 signatories:
Europe: Poland & Belaru;s;
15 other African states;
7 other Muslim states: Bahrain, Iraq, Kuwait, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, United Arab Emirates, Oman;
Haiti, Nauru
https://www.hhs.gov/about/agencies/oga/global-health-diplomacy/protecting-life-global-health-policy/geneva-declaration.html
The text:
https://www.hhs.gov/sites/default/files/geneva-consensus-declaration-english.pdf
“We Recognize that “universal health coverage is fundamental for achieving the Sustainable Development Goals related not only to health and well-being”
Did Trump just commit itself to universal health care in the US?
What will the insurance companies say about this?
Did Trump just commit…? Sure, why not? With just three months left in his presidency Mr. Trump can say what he likes, and does. But over the last four years he never came up with his vaunted replacement for Mr. Obama’s Affordable Care programme.
Re: ‘Trump…commit…why not?’
Certainly not a ‘planning type’ President. He is rather the consummate salesman always in the hunt for a ‘sale’ and going for the jugular with the ‘close’. ‘And only for you I’ll throw in fries with that. Curly ones too!’.
With his greased language he probably is the best bullshiter of all heads of state. It comes out naturally. To him, every problem in the Oval Office is a sales problem and can be duly solved by ‘open mouth’. The ‘blah blah blah’ school of oratory. Whatever he says doesn’t have to be true. It only just has to be said.
Another issue must not be forgotten either.
After the press, radio and TV, culture is about to be nationalized. Criticism is undesirable in a dictatorship.
“Anyone who forgets what was beautiful becomes angry. Who forgets what was bad, becomes stupid. ” (Erich Kästner)
Unfortunately, the broadcast report from DW is only in German.
On the positive image of the Fidesz government re the handling of Covid:
How many more people have to die before the average joes realize what is happening?
We heard from some people in the village:
Covid is only a problem in the leftist Budapest, not here …
From September 1 through October 23
Confirmed new infections
in the countryside: 38230-3495 = 34735
in Budapest: 16048-2762 = 13286
CoViD-19 deaths:
in the countryside: 844-246 = 598
in Budapest: 508-370 = 138
The folks outside Budapest have been hit by the virus more in the second wave.
“Covid is only a problem in the leftist Budapest, not here…”
Really? That’s what OV and his pandemic team try to keep pushing, BUT currently it’s bloody not true!
And the result is that the epidemic is raging much more “vidéken”…
since Aug.20 [let’s take that as the start of the 2nd ‘Szt.István’ wave]
Budapest: 28% of all infections / 19% of all deaths
Outside BP: 72% of all infections / 81% of all deaths
currently “top 5 counties” of new infections per 100.000 inhabitants in the last 7 days is [weekly factor]:
1.Nógrád +187 [+53%]
2.Vas +176 [+97%]
3.Győr-Moson-Sopron +154 [+3%]
4.Borsod-Abaúj-Zemplén +143 [+61%]
5.Szabolcs-Szatmár-Bereg +137 [+51%]
average for Hungary as a whole +107 [+36%]
note: weekly change in deaths by Corona-Virus for Hungary at +64%
Feerenc, you’re right of course – but many people just don’t want to face the ugly truth and try to believe the propaganda. See also my answer to Marty.
“Covid is only a problem in the leftist Budapest, not here…”
Another village, but the same insane comments here about Budapest. Even more stupid: “The virus won’t come as long as no migrants come!” Without any exaggeration: Propaganda kills more than minds only.
Source:
https://telex.hu/koronavirus/2020/10/22/koronavirus-fertozottseg-megyei-statisztika-uj-fertozottek-adatok-terkep
Get used to it: the pandemic is to reduce the global population by at least 2 billion. At the same time, it will save the environment.
What more can you ask for?
I simply ask: That you stop writing BS replies!
That’s all…
The number of COVID deaths double in every roughly 9 days (assuming no real restrictions get implemented).
In the last days in Hungary the official number of deaths was about 50 (48 and 47). That’s probably an underestimation of the real figures.
This means that by the end of November the number of COVID-related deaths will be 400 per day. We will start December with about 500 per day.
Christmas will be tough, with way more than 2,000 deaths per day (though in late December the country shuts down anyway, few people work, commute).
Will be interesting to see what your neighbours will say in late December.
,
By the way, I do think I hear the ambulance much more often (a main road is not so far away). It would be interesting to know how often does the ambulance gets called these days compared to let’s say 2 months ago?
Marty, thanks, we have the same feelings re ambulances (but of course it might also be police or the fire brigade) though we don’t count how often we hear them obviously.
You are right – only when people have dead family members like their grandparents or uncles will they wake up – maybe. Some might even be “not unhappy” because they no longer have to care for them and maybe even inherit something …
Our direct neighbours are like us older couples or widows, so we’re all in the risk group.
Well, we’ll see – said the blind man.
Current IHME projections for Hungary:
Around November 23:
Peak of the daily infections will occur at 21000/day.
(But the model predicted 8000 infections for today, and only 2000 were detected by the Hungarian government. So the official daily infection number might not go over 5000 to 6000)
Around December 15:
Peak of the daily deaths will be at 150/day.
(But the model predicted only 27 deaths for today, October 23.
Let us estimate 47/27*150 = 260 deaths/day on the top)
Peak of Hospital use will also take place around December 15.
ICU beds needed: 1620, available: 525.
Invasive ventilators needed: 1420. (But the model estimates 287 ventilators for today, and the official number is only 200).
February 1, 2021: 12000 deaths
Source:
https://covid19.healthdata.org/hungary
OK, will see.
I don’t claim to be an expert.
There are two things, however, which I think are important to note: there are no effective restrictions in Hungary so covid spreads completely freely.
Secondly, the only number which is more or less correct is the number of deaths. It’s an undercount for sure, but it is probably a usable proxy for the function.
That said, the Hungarian spread may be slower than say the Czech because Hungarians are simply a less social, more atomized, more alienated, poorer society.
I don’t believe there is any basis for saying that the Hungarians are less social, more atomized, more alienated and poorer, compared to the Czechs.
In my experience:
The Czechs do drink less hard alcohol when they gather and generally tend to put lights out earlier in the evening and get up earlier in the morning.
The Czechs also openly discuss (publically, locally and legally) the extent of inherited post-communist corruption and who’s who today, in this regard.
The Czechs work more.
The one big factor which makes for a serious Covid-risk, higher than normal, is large-scale tourism and the social life associated with it.
I agree with your first 3 statements.But still maintain that Hungarians especially in rural regions are poorer (that’s a fact) and are more backward, depraved, underdeveloped compared to the West and the Czech Republic (which is basically a Western country).
Michael
In my 20+ life in Hu, after many other counties, I also find the Huns the most negative, anti-social people in Europe. There are stats in support : suicide rates, hours of tv watching, mental health, highest no of denunciations to Gestapo at the time.
It’s a fact that the Huns ARE much poorer than the Czechs, check out Eurostats..
In the countryside yesterday I saw crowds, tourist groups of 20-25, lunch tables with 8-10 incl. children all without a single mask. The only sign of pandemic was some space in the lines although less than one m, and masks worn inside shops.
That’s why we don’t go out in the restaurants but just do shopping/baking/cooking.
Not only in the local Lidl where they have a security guy looking after it but also in the small stores around, i e the bakery, the butcher and the vegetable store they limit the number of people and ask them to wear masks, really good.
The only problem I have is with those loonies who don’t keep their distance – and those idiots who wear their mask under their nose …
OT: On October 23, 1956
Students from the Technical University of Budapest start a demonstration for freedom of expression and freedom of the press.
200,000 people join this march all the way to parliament.
The end, as we all know, was bitter.
Today nobody in Hungary fights for these values – unfortunately.
Sometimes in a particular time and place those in a nation must deal with things head on which makes them examine themselves in relationship to their country. Decisions, decisions, decisions. And one part is in the decision of consulting their own personal values hierarchy. What is it that I really believe in? With Pres Trump as a drunken captain of his sinking ship it’s quite evident his wayward steering is making the nation check out what they believe in. Many sure don’t want to go down with him at the wheel.
Considering how values have been greatly upturned and ‘disturbed’ by a regime it would be an interesting assessment to make as to what Magyars would truly ‘fight’ for. 6 hr working days? Free lunch on the job? Foreign tanks on the Hortobagy? A piece of ‘property‘ in Transylvania? It would be an indication as to what the entire nation reveres and what it does not. But more to the point what will the nation simply not acquiesce to? Where is its limit after conscience has already been overrun?
“Today nobody in Hungary fights for these values – unfortunately.”
Okay, I can see 10.000 People, but for me it doesn’t look like a rebellion, but more like resignation.
https://www.dw.com/en/hungary-thousands-march-through-budapest-demanding-academic-freedom/a-55380527
Secret battles of Orban’s rival – Budapest’s first year under opposition rule
https://www.direkt36.hu/en/karacsony-utkozetei-ilyen-volt-belulrol-az-ellenzeki-uralom-elso-eve/
CoViD-safe countries for the European Union, as of October 22, 2020:
Pacific + East Asia:
Australia, New Zealand;
Japan, South Korea, Singapore,
Thailand [the tourist-visited areas of Thailand do not look safe to me]
China [subject to confirmation of reciprocity]
Others countries:
Rwanda, Uruguay.
End of the list !
https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-releases/2020/10/22/travel-restrictions-council-reviews-the-list-of-third-countries-for-which-restrictions-should-be-lifted/
Thanks Eva for an actual copy of the Menendez report that was discussed in Politico in this article https://www.politico.com/news/2020/10/21/robert-menendez-trump-report-430354. Apparently according to article this report was “pulled together by the Democratic staff of the Senate committee, relies heavily on news accounts from the past four years, as well as interviews with dozens of former U.S. officials, foreign policy experts and foreign officials.” The politico article did not provide a direct link to this report.
I am reading it now and will comment on it once I digest it.
So I just completed reading the text of the minority report to the US Senate Committee on Foreign Relations titled “The Cost of Trump’s Foreign Policy: Damage and Consequences for U.S. and Global Security.” There were many interesting aspects to this report and clearly valid points relating to the incompetence of the Trump administration in relationship to US Foreign Policy. The framework was primarily built around the global conflict between the US, China, and Russia. Since it is the three of us who are most likely to completely destroy the world The issue of Hungary was always situated within that context. Early on in the report we can read “Russian and Chinese leaders have put forward a vision of authoritarianism that they argue is a superior method for organizing society in comparison to liberal democracy. They promote their model of authoritarian capitalism as an option for countries that seek economic development while preserving their independence from the strings attached to U.S. development assistance.” The first idea that jumped out at me immediately is that this Democratic party Foreign Policy document defines both China and Russia as authoritarian capitalist nations. I question that because of the weight of the state owned enterprises… Read more »
“… document defines both China and Russia as authoritarian capitalist nations. I question that because of the weight of the state owned enterprises in both China and Russia,”
Even the US has ceased to be a pure capitalist state since 2009 at the latest. The Fed has been buying huge amounts of private company bonds, Treasury bonds
This state intervention causes the stock market into an enormous bubble:
Bonds are not equity, they are debt. They are very different than let’s say the big sectors of the Chinese economy owned directly by the China Investment Corporation or Huarong Asset Management. The People’s Liberation Army also owns companies outright. In the 2008 economic crisis the US government did take stock from private companies and held it for a while. But never enough shares to control the companies. Ideologically government ownership of companies competing in the economy is not acceptable in the USA. There have been exceptions to that in passenger railroads which are not profitable and were consolidated in an entity called Amtrack owned by the US government through a Board of directors. There are some others entities in the USA owned by the government, but more often than the US government sells off these entities it ends up with. Even the US military does not own the largest companies it buys from. There is no question the US Federal Reserve can play a big role in the functioning of corporate America. But it does not have a seat on the Board of directors of these companies. I own both stocks and corporate bonds of a few companies. The valuations… Read more »
“Bonds are not equity, they are debt.” True.
Correct me, if the following is not true.
Say, there are P dollars the public and F dollars the Fed can invest in a month. If the Fed is a big buyer in the bond market, most of P will flood the stock market, pushing up the stock prices.
If F is lowered, then bond prices fall, interest rates rise, eventually drawing money from P, which causes the stock prices to fall.
Word salad again. As the French would say: Parler pour ne rien direr. Trying to make the democrats looking short sighted. Now lets have a look at the lifelong republicans. The moment Trump was descending on his golden escalator in 2015 and declared he wants to be nominated by the lifelong republicans for the presidency should have been an alarm for the republican party. And indeed during the primaries some lifelong republicans told us that this man is unworthy to be president. This attitude changed very fast as Trump mastered the primaries in the republican party. The lifelong republicans stood as one man behind the idiot. The most often excuse (until today) is that we should not take it seriously, this is how he is. Some lifelong republicans who have no vote anywhere started to distance themselves from the indefensible president. BUT the lifelong republicans who have a vote to stop this follow the president until it is not necessary anymore or they do not see any benefits for themselves. Just looking at the impeachment shows very clear that lifelong republicans who really could be the difference even refuse to investigate the misdoings of the republican president. And now you… Read more »
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/donald-trump-campaign-term-worse-than-expected_n_5f91ca8ac5b62333b2433dfc
This is who the lifelong republicans choose as their candidate in 2016 AND 2020
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/feb/17/central-park-five-donald-trump-jogger-rape-case-new-york
More and more, it looks to me that Trump will be the useful idiot they will blame the pandemic on.
The march of the students on October 23, 2020:
Yess!!!!
So, what does the latest Zavecz poll tell us about the task ahead for the opposition? Fidesz has 32 percent among the pool of all voters. This is a statistically insignificant drop from the 34 percent they achieved in Zavecz’s September survey (because we can assume a margin of error of around 2%, which is common to polls with this number of respondents.) However, Fidesz’s October numbers indeed represent a significant drop from the 36% rating they got in August. So we see a downward trend for Orbo in the “all respondents” group. The October numbers for DK, Momentum, Jobbik and the other parties are statistically unchanged compared with their results in both September and August among the the pool of all respondents. This means the people who are defecting from Fidesz generally are not embracing the opposition. Rather, they are moving into the “uncommitted” column, which has grown from 28 percent in August to 31 percent in October. Among committed voters, Fidesz dropped to 49 percent in October from 51 percent in August, while the DK rose from 15 to 17 percent over the same period. Both of these are statistically insignificant. The most exciting part of the poll,… Read more »
They don’t need to close the football stadiums because social distancing is easy in venues that were practically empty before the pandemic anyway.
Marcus, of course!
O1G has thought about and planned for social distancing years before it became necessary, glorious!
And now something totally OT but crazy and funny:
Sasha Barin Cohen has produced a new Borat movie – with Pence and Giuliani (being really pranked …) in main roles, absolutely fantastic!
https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/new-borat-superhero-movie-mocking-cruel-powerful-great-skill-right-ncna1244311
OT: https://nepszava.hu/3096783_titkolja-a-rendorseg-szijjarto-helikopterezesenek-koltsegeit
the police have refused to provide information on the cost of Foreign Minister Szijjártó’s helicopter trips in Hungary this year…
Sadly, record figures today in Hungary: 63 deaths linked to coronavirus and over 2000 cases of new infection
https://telex.hu/koronavirus/2020/10/27/koronavirus-magyarorszagon-adatok-fertozottek