At the height of the protest in far-right circles over a children’s book, followed by its public shredding, I predicted a ban on “LGBTQ propaganda” in schools. I based my prediction on a few sentences uttered by Prime Minister Viktor Orbán in his October 4 radio “interview,” in which he claimed that “Hungarians are so patient as far as this phenomenon is concerned that, although not without complaints, they put up with even such provocative demonstrations” as the one the country was facing now. The “phenomenon” refers to homosexuality, and the “provocative demonstration” was the publication of Meseország mindenkié, a children’s book. He continued: “We can say that Hungary, as far as homosexuality is concerned, is a tolerant and forbearing country, but there is a red line that cannot be crossed. I summarize my opinion here: leave our children alone!”
The attack on the gay community, begun by the Mi Hazánk party, is being continued by prominent members of the government parties. One overzealous KDNP politician gave a long lecture about pedophilia and “gender mania,” which he mispronounced as “gengermánia,” in his “lofty” speech on the anniversary of the 1956 revolution.
That red line, which, according to Orbán, the authors and the publisher of Meseország mindenkié overstepped, came back to haunt the prime minister. Eight civil organizations approached Ákos Kozma, the commissioner of fundamental rights, because in their opinion the controversy surrounding the book turned into a campaign of homophobic hatred led by the Hungarian government. TASZ (Társaság a Szabadságjogokért), the Hungarian equivalent of the American Civil Liberties Union, pointed out that the book doesn’t contain any sexual content and certainly doesn’t urge anyone to become homosexual. “Yet Prime Minister Viktor Orbán said in his radio statement that Hungary is a tolerant, patient country in terms of homosexuality as long as ‘our children are left alone.’” With this statement, “the prime minister reinforces the prevailing stereotypes against sexual minorities.” Moreover, “by emphasizing that ‘Hungary is patient with homosexuals,’ Orbán excluded LGBTQ people from the nation.”
TASZ and seven other NGOs pointed out that “the ombudsman has a statutory duty to uphold the rights of the most vulnerable groups in society,” and therefore “he should speak out against the prime minister’s homophobic statement” and declare that “there is no place for governmental hate speech.”
There is always something in Hungary that adds more fuel to the fire. This time it came from a documentary about Pope Francis titled “Francesco,” which was debuted at the Rome Film Festival. Francis, even before he became pope, supported civil unions for gay people, but making an explicit statement to the same end as pope added weight to his opinion. “Homosexuals have a right to be a part of the family” because “they are children of God.” Some of his supporters consider his words on the subject “a major step forward in the church’s relationship with LGBTQ people” and consider it evidence of “unmistakable support” of the community.
Evgeny Afineevsky, the director of “Francisco,” with Pope Francis in 2019
Magyar Kurír is the semi-official newspaper of the Hungarian Catholic Church, which has been continuously published ever since 1911. So far, Magyar Kurír has published two articles about the documentary. The first simply summarizes the main topics of the documentary based on articles from Vatican News and Avvenire, the daily newspaper of the Italian Conference of Bishops, which emphasize that there is nothing revolutionary about Francis’s statements about gays. His views on the subject have been known for years. The second is an editorial translated from the Catholic News Agency, reflecting the paper’s and, I assume, the Hungarian Conference of Catholic Bishops’ views. In this interpretation, the sentence “homosexuals have a right to be a part of the family” simply means that parents of gay people shouldn’t reject them and “make them miserable.” His second comment is not new either. He has always been in favor of legally recognized civil unions for homosexuals. Magyar Kurír decries any interpretation of the pope’s words on the subject that would indicate an acceptance of same-sex marriage. Although the Hungarian Catholic Church rejects the claim that what Francis is advocating is heresy, the article also says that believers “don’t have to agree with the pope when it comes to his statement on civil unions uttered in a documentary film.”
Right-wing, Fidesz-supported news sites are not so moderate in their reactions. The editor-in-chief of Vasárnap (Sunday) reads Francis’s comments about homosexuals being able to live in a family as granting approval to same-sex marriages. He then lectures Pope Francis on the church’s official teaching on the subject. At the end of this open letter, he concludes that the pope is “the victim of the lure of Satan.”
Another long article in the same paper is titled “The pope may be wrong, but I remain a Catholic anyway!” According to the author, “Pope Francis in the documentary about his life makes statements that are contradictory to the teaching of the Bible when he talks about the cohabitation of homosexual couples which should be legally defended.” What can a responsible Catholic do under these circumstances? “There are some who denounce the old fool in white cassock” while “others celebrate him because they see him as a pillar of their own liberal views.” And so, “the proponents of neo-paganism, which is lurking in the Catholic church, now believe that they can utter a triumphant, ‘well, didn’t I tell you.’” The true Catholics will simply ignore “the human failings and weaknesses of the chief” and keep their faith in the church.
Unfortunately, given the ideological makeup of the Hungarian Catholic clergy, I’m sure that most of them agree with Vasárnap that Francis is an old fool laboring under the influence of Satan.
The post tonight is -sadly, no doubt -an accurate commentary on anti LGBT views by the regime as well as many Hungarians. On the other hand, tremendous progress has occurred when even the Pope condemns this kind of prejudice masquerading as a defense of the family, let alone children (Of course, Hitler and Stalin also”defended” the family with their anti gay policies; great company this regime keeps). As an aging gay man, I am happy to see the regime challenged in this respect.
Regarding satan, I am no expert on such matters, but I suspect that the regime leadership and its’ enablers are more likely the “servants” of satan, let alone following the “lure of satan” than the Pope, myself or any other LGBT individual. The local Hungarian Catholic Church will not always be able to ignore the complete force of what the Pope said not only in the past, but now amplified for the present.
Looking at Hungry from far away, I cannot escape the feeling that The New World Order, that is trying to midwife itself into total domination of The West, was not made with Hungarians in mind.
Or, in other words – Hungarians, as a whole, do not seem gifted at fitting themselves into a box someone else manufactured for them to fit into.
After having watched my people get lobotomized by having inexplicably felt obliged to fit ourselves into the box that was made for us, over the last 7 decades, I am jealous of the Hungarian inability to fit into the one that has been made for them – coincidentally, the very same box that was made for us and which, as we covered ourselves in it, has already decapitated almost every sense of ourselves that we had held over previous centuries.
Sometimes an inability is a great asset.
I wish The Hungarians all the best at continuing to be unable.
@Mertens Greltzig, 1147 pm
Dear Mertens, rest assured. There are plenty of “unables” in Hungary. Alas, most of them have found a place in government here.
@Bimbi…
Yes, Kind Sir, I have suspected that to which you have testified, though, not living in Hungary, I appreciate your affirmation!
Mertens and The New World Order …
His first sentence made me laugh:
“Looking at Hungry from far away”
Yes, yes, I’m sure you’re very hungry … 🙂 🙂
… and far away looking.
What about the box Hungarians are actually being forced into at the moment? You might argue that this is exactly the kind of box that they have always had in mind for themselves. However, being assertive and emancipated is no longer of value and is pushed into a corner in many countries. Instead we get black and white positions that can only get us deeper into the trenches and all subtlety and nuance is lost. The Hungarian and Polish governments forget that they are there for all of their citizens, not just for one religious subgroup of society.
@Unity… As you know : people will always be placed, and will always place themselves into boxes, because that is what Humanity is, and, indeed, has always been. The questions, to my mind, are the following : #1. Are those boxes consistent with the cultural, racial, and historic norms of the country? #2. Are those boxes being thrust by a minority upon the majority? #3. Are those boxes being forced upon a people by outside pressure? To my way of thinking, a box is only acceptable if it comes from a historic norm that is approved of by the majority of the country. As to a government being able to ‘be there for all it’s citizens’, it cannot do that to equal degrees, because the government has to stand for something. Moreover, equality has never existed in the world, so it is irrational and unfeasable to yearn for it. If you hate the spirit of Modern Poland and Hungary, move to a Western Country that better embodies what you believe. This is something my spouse and I are having to deal with because where we come from is being, and, indeed, has been, largely destroyed by those very forces and… Read more »
#1 Traditions of Hungary are multicultural, multiracial and multireligious. When the minority forced their culture onto everybody things became much more narrow
#2 The catholic box is no box for Hungarians. Just 41% declare to have any believe – and this needn’t to be catholics. 7.5% of the entire population visit services of any believe at any regular basis.
#3 The pressure of christianity is made by the dictator, not by choice.
Then why don’t they just shut up and mind their business???
@Michael…
“Then why don’t they just shut up and mind their business???”
Who is the, ‘they’ to whom you refer, Dear Michael?
MG
Who are “your people”?
You are probably paid by the Russians to push propaganda to the Hungarians, at least it very much looks like this. Who are you is of no importance, it is obvious who you are.
Ahhhh!!!! The Russians are coming, the Russians are coming!!! Hunter Biden wrote those e-mails on his laptop, yet the Russians did it!!! Wow!!! And the fact that such arguments are now accepted by the sheep makes the “lobotomized” comment as true as can be.
… also hungry zoli.
No, the Russians aren’t coming! They are back, invited by king Viktor the least.
Dear Observer – I am a Southerner – or specifically, a North Carolinian.
My nation is Dixie, which has been conquered, and is being obliterated by the United States of America, or, perhaps better said – by those Neo-Liberal globalist corporations that run it and their allies, the Socialist Left.
No, I am not paid by anyone to be here, nor represent anyone, but, of course, if you insist on being suspicious, I will accept that.
Be well!
Mr Greltzig, may I ask why you keep using the word “historic” (famous in history) instead of the word “historical” (representing things from the past) ? Those two letters missing from the word you’re using considerably change the meaning of the sentence.
So I must ask if you’re doing it on purpose; when you say “historic norms” for instance, are you implying that they’re famous or it’s just an honest mistake ?
Also re your point #3 – outside pressure – if you google “gay clubs in Budapest” you will find quite a lot of them and many are pretty old and famous, which proves that they historically represent the inclinations of a good part of the Hungarian population – without any outside pressure.
MG
How come a NC Dixie guy comes here to interpret Hu events (without much experience in the country or knowledge of the language to follow those closely, I presume)?
How come you use the same propaganda panels used by the Russian and Orbàn propaganda?
And what is your connection to rambler.ru?
“Or, in other words – Hungarians, as a whole, do not seem gifted at fitting themselves into a box someone else manufactured for them to fit into.”
For sure I won’t be pressed into the fascist box Orbán created for me to stay in power forever – at least as long as he doesn’t use that box to bury me in.
@Istvan…
I understand and respect your feelings, because I will not ever be fitting myself into the box promoted by The EU, the Globalist Corporations or the Socialist Left.
As to Orban, he would have no power if most of the smalltowners and rural people of your country did not like him so much.
The same goes for President Trump here – he is the choice of Rural and Smalltowners (particularly Southerners) who, perhaps not coincidentally, have had, before his election in 2016, no voice in the United States for decades.
Re, The Rural and Smalltowners (particularly Southerners. ..no ‘voice’ in US. Since the War they have continuously been running some places in the South since the Civil War. Things are hard to see change. The plantations have gone but the mentality still exists. That’s why some of the least educated Americans come from the Southern states. Education in some Southern areas is the last thing being given creedence to and made important on white ‘plantation‘ minds to their electorates. It has been a matter of always ‘keep’in the coloreds in their place’. At this time ‘white boys’ especially those with no college have thrown their fealty to the Racist and Liar. They are frightened . Particularly of the demographic change to hit the US in the coming years as they will be in the minority. It’s an apparent feared and unpalatable a situation as Graybeard Jeff Davis co-authoring the Gettysburg address. And it all follows nicely that frightened men make a frightened horde fighting for their ‘privileges’ seen to be slipping away. And the South’s ‘Fright Nights’ extend out to the entire US. True story: A few months met a white guy from Minnesota. Thought the South should secede from… Read more »
Dear Wrfree…
Thank you for this interesting reply.
Unfortunately, I do not have the time to properly digest it right now, so I will return later.
Thank you, again.
Oh yes, the EU is something good! Living in peace together with common values is a great thing – would be, since 2 countries are violating these values, as you should know.
I am rural enough (my village has 580 inhabitants) to answer: Orbán is not loved that much as he expects. Largest party is those who are scared away from politics (thanks to Viktor). Second with creating enough fear is FIDESZ, the mayor just won last year, because he succeeded to be the only candidate – with more invalid votes than votes for him.
If you need Trump as your voice – good night! The poor are dropping as flies, lost their work and the peers of Trump just need to pay a very little more taxes than Trump himself….
Dear Istvan,
If the rural amd smalltown Hungarians do not like Orban Viktor, then it must be the ghosts, for how else could we exaplin the fact he keeps getting elected, and by a large margin at that.
Yes, the largest party in any country is the party of those who are so self-absorbed that they pay no attention to anything but what immediately affects themselves.
As to your blaming of Trump for the China virus, I do not think that President Trump handled it well in the early months, but, that said, it is reductionism to put this issue all on him. Moreover, the election is not just about this issue – not by a long shot.
Thank you for your reply.
The large majority of Orbán doesn’t exist at all. Only in 2010 he got a majority of the votes. Even the plurality is those of none voters. The rest is cheating and propaganda.
@Istvan…
“The EU is something good! Living in peace together with common values is a great thing – would be, since 2 countries are violating these values, as you should know.”
No, Dear Istvan, nothing worse in this world than living in peace under a tyranny. Death is vastly preferable.
Yes, I am aware that Poland and Hungary, along with numerous other Eastern European states are violating the notion of common values.
Nothing could be more beautiful and admirable than this ‘violation’, because dissolving your national identity to fit in with the rest is as horrible as watching individual people pretend to be someone that they are not, in order to make others like them or to placate them.
As a North Carolinian I have watched my people either dissolve our values, or allow to be dissolved, my whole lifelong, and it is a truly terrible thing to behold.
Watching someone, and or something, you hold dear, be taken apart, bit by bit, is a torture quite difficult to describe.
In any case, be well on this afternoon!
Values in NC?
Like Slavery or at least racism?
Funny guy from the obesity belt – formerly the bible belt … 🙂 🙂
Reminds me of this tea party guy in congress:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Broun
“All that stuff I was taught about evolution and embryology and the Big Bang Theory, all that is lies straight from the pit of Hell.”[26] In addition, Broun is a young earth creationist, and believes that the world is only a few thousand years old, and was created in six literal days.
Broun was the lead sponsor of the Federal Marriage Amendment, a proposed amendment to the United States Constitution to define marriage as “as consisting only of the union of a man and a woman” and thus prohibit same-sex marriage in the United States
Nice guy, ain’t the creature? 🙂 🙂
MG
Seems you don’t know and , worse, don’t understand history, the always changing kaleidoscope of peoples, cultures and circumstances driven by natural events, conquests, migration, trade, religions, etc. Many have tried to piss against the winds of change, invariably with the same result; already the ancient Greeks new that one cannot step into the same river twice…
but we know there are always some trying again….
The only problem with the EU is that nobody thought that a dictator in Hungary could bring the community in danger and did not agree on any mechanism for this very case. Now the enemy of the EU sits at the same table and vetoes every single decent decision to reintroduce the common values in the union. The common values are clear and can be found in Art 2 TEU. Nothing wrong with a single of these values. And that 2 countries are unable to respect what they have signed for is no excuse, they are allowed to leave if they changed their mind that democracy and rule of law are of the devil! No single “national identity” is in danger, the opposite is true, the EU is enabling especially the existence of smaller nationalities and national minorities by both rules and money. The tales about the “loss of national identity” are the excuses why in Hungary the dictator may create a system of state corruption or why in Hungary the law needs to be bent in the favour of the regime. Or why we aren’t allowed to have a government that is formed by the majority of voters. The… Read more »
@”Unfortunately, given the ideological makeup of the Hungarian Catholic clergy, I’m sure that most of them agree with Vasárnap that Francis is an old fool laboring under the influence of Satan.”
Almost certainly, the vast majority of the Hungarian clergy is in fact gay.
Frederic Martel’s very interesting In the close of Vatican: Power, Homosexuality and Hypocrisy was published in Hungarian recently.
The book was published by one of Libri’s imprint. Ironically Fidesz bought recently a substantial chunk of Libri (which is the most important bookseller in Hungary and which also owns several publishers as well) via MCC (a fidesznik, ideology-education foundation) such books will not be welcome in the future in the book chain.
https://www.libri.hu/konyv/frederic_martel.a-vatikan-kinos-titkai.html
It would be the task of the Hungarian gay community to out these fidesznik, tax-payer funded hypocritic bishops.
@Marty…
“Almost certainly, the vast majority of the Hungarian clergy is in fact gay.”
‘The vast majority’?
Surely that could not be, Dear Marty. Many, yes, but, a vast majority, no.
That said, just because a cleric may have an inclination to same sex attraction does not mean that he will give into that and violate his oaths.
Moreover, I know clerics and laity who are anti-LGBTQ, even though they admit to having same-sex attraction.
That there is a difference between men with “same sex attraction” and gay men is remarkable BS!
Okay, Dear Istvan, but, following the manner in which numerous Christians I know, who have fought these inclinations you have, ‘same-sex attraction’ is how they speak of it.
If you ask them whether they are gay or not, they correct you and say that to be gay, one must give in to the inclinations of same-sex attraction.
It seems reasonable to me, because the difference between a murderer and one who is not is that the murderer acts on his murderous thoughts, whereas the one who does not act upon his murderous thoughts cannot be considered a murderer.
If you know people that are unable to accept their own being it doesn’t mean that hiding themselves from reality influences exactly this reality not at all.
A “murderous thought” is no way to compare anything either, since it is no crime being gay, and murderers aren’t born as murderers, while gays are born that way.
MG
While I’m with you on the “vast majority” the fact remains that the greatest homosexual and pedofile rings in western history have been the Christian churches (don’t know about Islamic ones), at least since Sodom and Gomorrah.
ME TOO!
Funny to see how, in recent years, the Hungarian Catholic Church, in common with the Hungarian Nationalist Government, has whole-heartedly pursued money and power in Hungary. The Church has now achieved the status of a cult within the Catholic whole, wishing it could but still not quite able to tag the pope as an heretic.
In this it echoes the strivings of the Orbán government, which, desperate for money and power has also achieved Cult status among the governments of the European Union, a complete outlier (or should that be “out-and-out-liar”?). No doubt Mr. Orbán sees himself as the de facto “Pope” of European Politics while he dances beside the Danube as Poisoner Putin’s puppet.
I can’t be thankful enough to be able to live in a truly
democratic, tolerant country, Australia.
My grandparents were born in Poland, my parents in Hungary
and I’m ashamed of both!
Both what? Both sets of grandparents/parents? Both Poland and Hungary? Not at all. Please be gently proud of your family heritage and the countries where they, perforce, lived. Above all, be happy.
Absolutely, Dear Bimbi – to revile your heritage is a terribly unnessary and deleterious thing, a side-affect, no doubt, of Modern Leftism, or, perhaps better articulated – Anti-European Nihilism that is so much their fashion.
Bimbi
There’s little to be proud of in Hu, in the Hu society now. That is if we accept the conventional definition of country and proud of in this sense. I mean we look at the prevailing features, dominant factors to define the unit and the so defined Hu or Pl don’t look good, notwithstanding the many smaller good things or people there.
I personally don’t use the “be proud of” eg. birthplace to which event I have had no contribution at all, tribal instincts are pretty weak in me.
Dear Observer…
I very respectfully disagree – Hungarian culture has many praiseworthy aspects, just as the people of your nation have achieved some very fine things.
If you want to find a nation poorer than your own, in many of these respects, you need only travel to the Americas.
Have a nice day!
MG
I meant in the frame of Europe and, as I wrote, we are talking about the country as a socio political entity “notwithstanding the many smaller good things and people”. The kleptocratic fascist Orbàn has nothing to do with Bàrtok, Mednyanszky, Szentàgatai, Teller, Cukor, Eszterhàzy, Szell, Ormandy, etc. Eg. the beautiful buildings majestically lined the river banks of Budapest where the fascist scum were killing professors, jurists, writers, doctors, etc. ie. the cream of the Hu culture (the Jewish ones, and few others the Hungarist scum didn’t like) claiming they were defending the Hu “culture”. We see the same poisonous shoots budding now.
A bit OT:
This reminds me of one of my favourite jokes – yes, it is bitter and “bad”:
What’s the main difference between a progressive and a conservative catholic priest?
The progressive priest enjoys life with his girlfriend/boyfriend …
While the conservative priest still has his choir boys …
A marvelous opportunity for any sober thinking person to be utterly and hopelessly confused. It is impossible to choose between the hatred or the hypocricy of the Catholic Church.
The worldwide conspiracy of a ”bunch of sinister virgins,” many of them homosexuals, are teaching sexual mores to others, while many of them are under investigation and in criminal prosecution for pedophilia.
Ironeous, wouldn’t you say?
Actually the most amazing, brazen hypocrisy is the regime’s noisy “Christianity” as they selectively pick or drop elements of the faith to serve their nefarious political goals. I don’t know whether pretending to be a believer and exploiting the religion for sinful purposes are heresies or sins, but a couple of centuries ago the Inquision would have surely investigated many of these Fid characters.
Orbán wants to become chief over the chief of the deputy of God on earth. “I don’t care who among me becomes God” he dreams every night.
Don, for catholics the pope infallible, for FIDESZ Orbán is infallible. This means in Hungary Orbán is the pope. And a modern one, married with children and not even catholic! Since Orbán selects who is president under him he will also decide who is god under him. The president must be changed after 10 years or if he has proven that he can copy and paste. The god as well?
Cinderella as hard core porn – according to Orbán:
@Istvan…
Though this illustration is very definitely not hard-core porn, as you well know, Dear Istvan, it is a threat, one which, in fact, is more threatening than an actual pornographic depiction would be, this because such depictions, as this, seek to normalize sexual deviance to our children.
Please, slow down. There has been too much of Mertens Greltzig in the last two days.
Dearest Eva – if you find the volume of my comments oppressive, then bury them under a slew of some of your own!
Mertens, since you obviously know nothing about Hungary and aren’t really interested, what’s your point?
Just start your own website, little fascist, racist, … – the right wing world is waiting for you!
Dear Wolfi –
My political views have nothing to do with my interest in civil exchange.
I am sorry that so many, nowadays, either on The Left or Right, only want to talk with people who parrot their views.
Too, I am sorry that so many humans believe that, when you meet someone who is not like you, you must exchange insults.
Thank you for your reply.
Agreed. Please dear readers and friends-do not feed the trolls such as Mr. Grelzig (likely a fake name). 2nd request, please return to topics covered in “Hungarian Spectrum”.
Yes, Dear Misi – I must be shunned because I have a dissenting view from yours.
Oh, but is that not one of your objections with Orban Viktor – that he too often represses dissenting views?
Eva, it’s dead obvious that HS is being trolled by this “MG.” (The regulars, ever thirsty, just can’t resist.)
Ergo then children are born highly intellectual! Then they are vastly superior to you. And if they are vastly superior to you, they will surely come to a different conclusion.
On the other hand, if the children seeing a couple with holding hands and they conclude they have to be gay, then why do not show the pictures. If an idiot looks at the picture and recognizes a gay couple in it, he is no longer a child.
Yes, Dear Don, everyone who does not agree with you must surely be superior to me!
Excellent conversation…
It was only the logical conclusion of your statement.
Orbán and his fascist friends talked about gay sex stories in the child book, so my comment was just pointing out the reality. And of course it is no threat at all if children learn about the nature of humans.
I agree with you, Dear Istvan, that children ought be taught about the nature of humans : that it is sinful and ought be fight it at all costs.
I doubt if Orban would embrace gay bashing or the Catholic Church with such enthusiasm if it was politically not to his advantage. The Church is what it is, like it or not. The Hungarian “voters” like the things that surprise us. Orban knows what it is.
It takes two to tango!
The Church – What would it be without the congregation of faithful followers?
Unfortunately, Orban et al. are seeking ways to deviate from moral norms of tolerance, kindness, and peaceful co-existence with those they disagree with.
OT but funny – Doesn’t Hungary have cleaning ladies? …
… „in Russia, where elections are rigged and the ruling United Russia party virtually always wins, the bedrock political principle is to create the illusion of democratic choice.
For that, Mr. Loktev needed an opponent.“ After a long search the cleaning lady of the city hall was ready to compete against Loktev … and won. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/24/world/europe/russia-election-mayor.html
The “elections” of the soft fascism….
Re: „soft fascism“ formerly I used to say hobby Nazis that I had to give up on them because of the actual situation. I do not know if soft fascism is or should be a legitimate expression. If so, from what moment on we have to remove the soft and oppression is never soft even if you survive it. But this is just for thinking …
Most of the posts here are bits in the puzzle which already long ago revealed the image of the present day fascism – fascism light as I use to call it. Here’s another
popular article describing this “soft fascism” as they call it. (I’ve never regretted so much to be proven right).
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/9/13/17823488/hungary-democracy-authoritarianism-trump
No!!!! The image of fascism is the one being painted in the Western world, where people are now losing their jobs for not conforming to increasingly absurd demands made by the hysterical liberal mob. I read recently about a truck driver who lost his job for making the “OK!” sign with his hand. Then just a few days ago I saw that sign made repeatedly in a Sponge Bob episode. I guess it won’t be long before parents will start losing their jobs because their kids might make that sign in public. Perhaps I should not have made reference to it, because Sponge Bob may also get cancelled. They already tried to do so with Paw Patrol. Criticism of BLM not tolerated, people are fired. Saying that “everyone’s life matters in the eyes of god” is also punishable by job loss now. Showing support for law enforcement is also grounds for job loss. Yep!!! Where is the fascism???
If you want, we can sign a petition for you to have your Fox News replacement Sponge Bob not removed.
While in Hungary they are debating and questioning the wisdom exposing small children to the concept of gay relations through such books, in most of Western Europe the same Marxists who insist that Hungary should allow for such books are advocating for the mass-settlement of Europe with homophobic zealots, who in the majority think that homosexuality should not be legal, in other words punishable by law. Contrary to liberal expectations the implanted population tends to hold on to these views. So right now we are seeing a surge in homophobic attacks, along with the surge in anti-Semitic attacks, as well as sexual attacks on women. Eventually in Western Europe as the native population is replaced, the conversation on homosexuality will be narrowed down to “do we stone them to death or do we throw them off of tall buildings?” And still the Marxists will pretend that they care about the gay people, just as they claim that they care about women’s safety and protection of Jews.
The homophobic zealots is you. Marx burping is more eloquent than your stuttering. How can a zoli, who doesn’t even understand children’s books, know what Western Europeans think or are.
Understand by getting informed, instead of self-indoctrination, which is what you do. This is what the new West Europeans think:
https://www.cnn.com/2016/04/11/europe/britain-muslims-survey/index.html
Guys like you are much more dangerous in Europe. In Germany the biggest security problem is violence from the Nazi scene. Says the German secret service. That is understanding by understanding.
The german deep state will say that, but Germany’s Jews disagree with them, thus exposing their lies meant to prop up the sick ideology that dominates society today.
The German Jews say the biggest security problem is violence from the Nazis.
https://www.jta.org/2019/06/14/global/germany-is-accused-of-downplaying-anti-semitic-attacks-by-muslims
Come again???
So German government blames 90% of antisemitic attacks on Neo-Nazis, while Jews say 20%. The rest? Not ideologically convenient!!!
This is the difference between me and you. I cite facts to support my views, which at least for now are still available. You rely on the fact that Academia, Government, MSM and Big Tech are working very hard to convince Western world’s sheeple of your point of view, facts be damned! No need for facts, just repeat, until it all becomes the “truth” and all who dare to factually disagree are “nazis”!
Its OK!!! By the looks of things it will not be long before there will be no more factual references to be had in the public sphere to disturb the “truth”!!!
@Zoli…
Actually, Dear Zoli, you do not even have to read this article to know who the German Government will blame, for. all across The West, crimes are fictiously attributed to unLeftist White Gentiles.
Case in point?
In my country, many of our major cities have been burned by the government and anti-nationalist NGO- sponsored Black Lives Matter and Antifa riots.
And who is frequently blamed?
Nazis, Klansmen, and other White Supremacists; they who would never go near a BLM riot, except to fight it … OR… they blame militias, like the Proud Boys, those who have an interracial membership that supports President Trump.
For The Left, everyone who does not go along is a Nazi and, of course, the Nazis are always to blame!
It’s gotten so ridiculous in the U.S.A, they even call conservative Jews, ‘Nazis’ and Black Conservatives, ‘White Supremacists’.
Reading 10 times “is accused of” doesn’t create a fact. That in Germany as well as in other civilised countries nazi slogans are forbidden is no proof at all that the crime statistics are falsified. It is just that Zoltán the multiple migrant and serial colonist needed some minority bashing. BTW Hungarian gays immigrate to Germany as well!
It is a fact that the victim description of a certain type of crime is consistently at odds with government claims about those same crimes. So either the Jews who are the victims of these attacks are lying or the government. It comes down to choice here! I believe the Jews, you seem intent on disregarding the voice of the victims of the crime in favor of believing the government claims which are at odds with victim claims, but ideologically convenient.
It should come as no surprise given that the Jews claim that the overwhelming majority of the attacks are a consequence of your ideology.
Funny, your source JTA! It also had an article:
“Jewish Republican congressional candidate calls George Soros a ‘Nazi sympathizer’”Crazies everywhere …
Yes, I am sure that the MSM is eager to report on it. And very credible they are! If you have any info showing the report to be false please enlighten!
https://www.timesofisrael.com/germany-is-accused-of-downplaying-anti-semitic-attacks-by-muslims/
Another Jewish site reported on the same thing. But I guess it would be just too much for the Western MSM to get in on this conversation!
Not just this is funny! The “main witness” clearly stated as well that anti-Semitism isn’t imported to Germany, but mainly has been grown there. And the multiple migrant and serial colonist even thinks that if the same weird article is reprinted elsewhere he has proven enough. But also there “accused of” and nothing else but unproven stories. Of course, repeating hot air doesn’t mean anything else but hot air!
If you take an honest look at sexual deviance, apart from your own feelings, you see several things…
#1. It has always existed.
#2. It has never been widely accepted.
#3. The degree to which it has been not accepted fluctuates, with the time and area, from violently not accepted to tolerated, or, in some unusual cases, openly practiced.
Because of these three things supporters and opponents of the Modern LGBTQ Agendae have to be sober and realistic – homosexuality will never really be accepted, especially not in places like Hungary – outside of the major cities – yet it will never go away.
The fight will remain over where it is accepted and to what degree.
When I was a child in the 1960s, homophobia was too common and excessive in my country. Now, in 2020, we are at the opposite end – homosexuality is too common, too flagrant, and being systemically promoted, or, perhaps better, said, is being forcibly thrust upon us by globalist corporations.
Are you Catweazle in real life?
MG
Good points in your first half, but then:
– “too common”?! I’ve never seen a person who became gay reading, hearing, observing whatever. Those who have some of it act bisexual.
– “promoted” ?! perhaps you mean movies showing that gays exist? and that they are just like us, the heterosexuals with a different sexual orientation ?
– “forcibly thrust upon (whom?) by globalist corporations ..” ?!&#*? Now this is already the Russian propaganda BS – the ” globalist homosexual cabal” rules Europe (or was it the world?).
The situation within the Hungarian Catholic Church relating to LBGT civil rights is interesting. Cardinal Peter Erdo in 2014 read out a report to a conference of Bishops that was consistent with the current comments made by Pope Francis on civil unions between same sex couples. This was discussed in this article https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/homosexuals-have-gifts-offer-says-vatican-historic-turnaround-9792181.html and in the National Catholic Reporter (a liberal Catholic newspaper in the USA). There were numerous attacks by conservative traditional Bishops on this report and it was clarified by the Vatican that the document produced was not formal church doctrine. Cardinal Erdo interestingly because he agreed to be the transmitter of the a more liberal stance towards the LBGT community was viewed by the right wing in the Church as a supporter of this position by the Pope. The implications of the Pope’s comments on civil unions are extensive and they are discussed in this article https://www.ncronline.org/news/opinion/how-things-church-may-change-after-pope-francis-civil-union-comments . In relevant part this article states: “Francis’ words may not have the force of doctrine, but they can be a major force in terms of church practice. Change in church doctrine is always proceeded by a change in practice.” Our Cardinal here in Chicago Blase J. Cupich’s 2015 statement… Read more »
@Istvan…
“I believe there will be on-going pressure to change doctrine in the Church internationally. ”
There is, Sir, just as there has been, and all major denominations of the Christian Faith have either succumbed to that pressure, or, as I write, are succumbing to it.
That said, The Orthodox Church has not given an inch to the LGBTQ, and there is a rising revolt in The Roman Catholic Church over this very issue.
Homosexual Marriage was undemocratically forced on many states in my country, by activist courts, and, that so, as the United States comes unraveled and divides into numerous parts, there will be those states that are pro-LGBTQ, namely Blue States, and those states, Red States, which will not be.
As to Cupich – he is considered to be one of the most pro-LGBTQ of the cardinals in the U.S. though, suddenly other cardinals have spoken forecfully out against it, since Pope Francis’s statements on the subject of homosexual civil unions to a documentary filmmaker became public last week.
The Orthodox Church may not have “given an inch to the LGBTQ”, but she has graver, both historic and historical, sins.
Namely she was in bed with the security police in every Eastern European country, and many of her priests routinely betrayed people’s confessions to the authorities.
Any lightening of religious tyranny and parallel faith-based exclusive societies will be most welcome!
Thanks Istvan for returning to a civil discussion of the “Spectrum” post.
My last partner was Catholic and when he died, the service for him was at a Catholic church. His sexual orientation was discussed in a respectful and kind manner and that was in 2001.
More progress has occurred as per your comments.
Dear Misi – you can believe that if I died having lived a life according to what you might regard as my sexual orientation (adultery and fornication) you can be sure that my church would not have discussed it in a respectful and kind manner.
Fortunately, I don’t live a life based on my ‘sexual orientation’, which means that my wife has every assurance that I am not cheating on her, nor have I ever.
Why for goodness sake should the opinion of a bunch of priests have any importance in topics where people have a different form of love than heterosexual love. And that the dignity of LBGT people is a topic of discussion amongst the flock is even more disgusting.
Do they have knowledge non believing people do not have?
And if so why did they never made this knowledge public?
As long as they can the Roman Catholic church sticks to the dogmas, only if proven wrong they retreat slowly.
Quote of the day:
’I fear that Christians who stand with only one leg upon earth, also stand with only one leg in heaven’. Dietrich Bonhoeffer. Letter to fiancé 1943..
No wonder some parts of the earth are going to hell. As the devils’ find it easy to take two at a time to infect an unsuspecting and such a faithful and trusting laity as they do their dirty work continually against all of ‘God’s children’.
Great quote, Dear Wrfree.
The complexity comes in that we do not agree where heaven is, or, at least, where we should place both our legs.
I urge the regulars to stop making Hungarian Spectrum “open season” for trolls. “Mertens Greltzig” was dead obvious, but you just kept going for it. You are making yourselves unpaid accomplices in their calling (and lowering the quality and credibility of Hungarian Spectrum‘s discussion section).
I urge Stevan Harnad to think about minus and to think about that we don´t live in a bubble. If you have no arguments against populists we have nothing. Also you should let your humanity out in a positive sense. If you would live in Hungary I would forgive you.
Hello Don Kichote, you often say many useful and insightful comments; however, it is obvious -to me- that “Grelzig” is not his/her real name. It is also obvious-to me- that he/she is just trolling. Therefore, I think that Steven Harnard is correct i.e. we should not respond to any thing this troll says. By the way, I am unable to use my full name as I still have family in Hungary and after the events of the last 80 plus years, I am extra cautious about not causing any increase in fear, real or not.
“Grelzig” is like the porno images that sometimes disrupt my ZOOM AA meetings. I am certain that Professor Balogh will -at some point- have to ban the equivalent porno verbal comments from this bot. She is very tolerant, but she also has excellent boundaries.
Misi Hello I don’t use my real name anymore since I got threatening letters. I don’t let my thoughts and the decision what to answer to be forbidden. If I do not answer then I do not sign in to WP to click thumbs … if I like to answer I find words.
The argument that it is obvious that the troll is not using his real name and therefore Stevan is right is quite strange and does not contribute to the blog’s value. Yes the Grelzig is a typical idiot stupidly imagined clueless good when we are not like that?
GAY BASHING IN HUNGARY
That these words should ever appear as a comment on the Hungarian Government led by Viktor Orbán speaks volumes for the pettiness, the divisiveness, the drive to control, the un-Christian rejection of „love thy neighbour”, the dogma, the Nationalist drivel that forms the „rock” on which this odious regime is built.
The Neanderthal regime seems to operate on the power of despising „other” – Fidesz supporters and traitors; „Hungarians” and Roma; Hungarians and „illegal” immigrants; V4 and „Brussels”; „Christian” (yuck, yuck) and others; Nationalists and communists; rich and poor; us and „them”.
The regime stinks of discrimination, hand-in-glove with the Hungarian Catholic Church.
Orbán wallows in nastiness.